Joe Bonamassa plays the Town Hall

[Hot_Grits]

There is a huge audience for unchallenging music out there and if you want to make a really good living, being able to tap into that is a skill enough in itself. Like most on here, I am a music snob, but I'm so passionate about the music I enjoy, it needs to meet a very high set of criteria for me to appreciate it. Appealing to people like myself will never make anyone rich though, there's not enough people like me to make it commercially viable, especially as others who are like me will like different music entirely, for entirely different reasons.

I kind of see Joe Bonamassa as the next generation equivalent of Eric Crapton, who made an absolute fortune playing some of the most mediocre pop and pop-blues on the planet, the unplugged version of Layla makes me want to stab myself in the ears with a hot poker. But I can knock Eric all I want for focusing on mass-market appeal and blandness, I'm pretty sure when he's behind the wheel of the one-off custom Ferrari the company built especially for him, he's not exactly crying over the lack of respect from people like myself. Same deal with Gary Moore and, as HG so eloquently puts it, his Budwieser Commercial Blues. Horrible music from my perspective, but it made Gazza a lot of money and turned him from that Irish guitar dude who had a hit with Phil Lynott to a household name.

I'm pretty sure Joe could be more edgy and take more risks if he wanted to, but if his current formula is putting him where he wants to be, fair play to him. I just won't buy any of his albums.

To be fair to old Clappers he did record the bluesbreakers album, which is a classic that changed everyone's perception of what lead guitar should sound like. Then he followed it up with Cream, Derek and the Dominos and Blind Faith. That's a lot of being on the cutting edge and taste-making for any career.

[jeremyb]

Yeah, Clapton has my respect, he's earnt his dues!

[Vince]

To be fair to old Clappers he did record the bluesbreakers album, which is a classic that changed everyone's perception of what lead guitar should sound like. Then he followed it up with Cream, Derek and the Dominos and Blind Faith. That's a lot of being on the cutting edge and taste-making for any career.

For sure... but that was..? Forty years ago?

[Molly]

To be fair to old Clappers he did record the bluesbreakers album, which is a classic that changed everyone's perception of what lead guitar should sound like. Then he followed it up with Cream, Derek and the Dominos and Blind Faith. That's a lot of being on the cutting edge and taste-making for any career.

For sure... but that was..? Forty years ago?

Which makes me think again about where the next game-changer is coming from. So much guitar seems at best a minuscule development of what's gone before. Listening to, and thoroughly enjoying, a Slash album right now. As good as it is, in guitar playing terms it's nothing new.

Wonder if the first time people heard Clapton it was as 'smack in the face' as when I first heard Eddie Van Halen opening riff to Hang 'em High.

[Danger Mouse]

To be fair to old Clappers he did record the bluesbreakers album, which is a classic that changed everyone's perception of what lead guitar should sound like. Then he followed it up with Cream, Derek and the Dominos and Blind Faith. That's a lot of being on the cutting edge and taste-making for any career.

Oh sure, he has the past you mention to allow him a period of credibility and certainly Cream were a commercial success in their own right. However it wasn't until from the late 80's and 90's that EC really hit his commercial success stride and that period, for me, gave us some right old stinkers and lots of old guys in sports coats and jeans wittering on about what a fantastic guitarist he is/was.

I will admit, though, growing up with a Dad who was mad about EC and being a kid becoming aware of music during his solo era, I was over-exposed to that particular period and so may have something of a bias against him. I was quite pissed off at my dad, after years of listening to "bad Bob Marley covers" Clapton, I discovered a copy of Disraeli Gears tucked behind the record player at and wondered why the hell could someone who played like that, produce drivel like Pretending.

[calling card]

Haha I had a moment a while back when EC came on the radio with a track from Autumn, dripping with chorus effect and Phil on drums I'm looking for a chorus pedal too.

Anyway such is fame, sooner or later you'll get talked about this way.

If you are reading this Joe have a great show and enjoy your stay in NZ.

[Vince]

Which makes me think again about where the next game-changer is coming from.

Good question.

I think the problem is that people that ask that question (not necessarily you) are often looking at things from a heavy/classic rock perspective. And no, that stuff is not going anywhere much, so it's unlikely that anything game changing will ever come from there again. The style has shot its bolt. Perhaps Joe Bonamassa IS the next game changer, but he's changing a game that doesn't interest me.

Also, music is so fragmented, it's hard for something to have as much crossover as some years ago... look at all the varieties of metal that are out there, all the things that are described as [whatever]core and so on. It gets hard to please everyone at the same time. Especially in a world where you can opt out of the mass media altogether.

And older people like myself (50) that have heard a heap of the records the younguns are inspired by are the hardest to please of all.

But there's certainly a lot of stuff happening out there, even with guitar. The game is changing in a thousand playing fields at once. I often get the Pitchfork app to suggest music to me on Spotify: I have never heard any of those bands before nor do I ever come across the same band twice

[Hot_Grits]

To be fair to old Clappers he did record the bluesbreakers album, which is a classic that changed everyone's perception of what lead guitar should sound like. Then he followed it up with Cream, Derek and the Dominos and Blind Faith. That's a lot of being on the cutting edge and taste-making for any career.

Oh sure, he has the past you mention to allow him a period of credibility and certainly Cream were a commercial success in their own right. However it wasn't until from the late 80's and 90's that EC really hit his commercial success stride and that period, for me, gave us some right old stinkers and lots of old guys in sports coats and jeans wittering on about what a fantastic guitarist he is/was.

I will admit, though, growing up with a Dad who was mad about EC and being a kid becoming aware of music during his solo era, I was over-exposed to that particular period and so may have something of a bias against him. I was quite pissed off at my dad, after years of listening to "bad Bob Marley covers" Mark Turner, I discovered a copy of Disraeli Gears tucked behind the record player at and wondered why the hell could someone who played like that, produce drivel like Pretending.

It was Live Aid that bought Crappers back in the commercial spotlight. Apparently he played well.

I had similar exposure to you: the sleepy heroin 70s stuff and the 80s dreck. I was an adult before I knew about the good stuff.
But all through that time he was still a recognisable soloist. And even now, Crapton is a good player when he turns his mind to it.

I just find it difficult to include him in a discussion about JB or GM, no matter how much I don't want to listen to 'journeyman'.

[Hot_Grits]

Which makes me think again about where the next game-changer is coming from.

Good question.

I think the problem is that people that ask that question (not necessarily you) are often looking at things from a heavy/classic rock perspective. And no, that stuff is not going anywhere much, so it's unlikely that anything game changing will ever come from there again. The style has shot its bolt. Perhaps Joe Bonamassa IS the next game changer, but he's changing a game that doesn't interest me.

Also, music is so fragmented, it's hard for something to have as much crossover as some years ago... look at all the varieties of metal that are out there, all the things that are described as [whatever]core and so on. It gets hard to please everyone at the same time. Especially in a world where you can opt out of the mass media altogether.

And older people like myself (50) that have heard a heap of the records the younguns are inspired by are the hardest to please of all.

But there's certainly a lot of stuff happening out there, even with guitar. The game is changing in a thousand playing fields at once. I often get the Pitchfork app to suggest music to me on Spotify: I have never heard any of those bands before nor do I ever come across the same band twice

Well put.

There's innovation happening in music in general and with the guitar as well, but if you're looking for that next huge guitar innovator through a classic rock or metal lens then it's going to be hard to imagine one coming along soon. It might happen ...and it might not. In metal you have crazier shredders than ever and the Djent guys have their thing going on, but as with many genres, the new stuff that is going on has relatively little to do with guitar solos.

One thing that is different between now and the 80s is players are really aware of the sheer breadth of ways the guitar can be used creatively. There also seem to be more players that draw from many different styles effectively, mixing things up. I reckon this is often a way to keep things sounding fresh in the absence of the kinds of bursts of innovation that happened to single genres, like technical rock guitar in the 80s or the first wave of sampling.

Also I don't think it's much to be just a skilled guitar player any more. These days musicians are far more involved with the creation of everything to do with their music, so the use of imagination is across everything. That focus on squeezing something new out of the guitar is kind of narrow thinking compared to working with everything available to make new music.

[Danger Mouse]

I just find it difficult to include him in a discussion about JB or GM, no matter how much I don't want to listen to 'journeyman'.

Fair enough, maybe I'm being a little harsh, I don't have a particularly objective view of his playing ability.

It didn't help that during the 90s I would go try out some HiFi gear and pretty much every time I'd ask for something rocky to listen to I would get handed a Crapton CD as soon as I walked into the demo room. But the salesmen knew that most of their customers were white, middle-aged men with a fine taste in comfortable trousers and sensible shoes, so it made sense to suit their demo music to their target customer demographic.

[jeremyb]

The greatest innovation is definitely coming from the "metal" scene, extended range guitars and 8 / 9 / 10+ strings, opening up new opportunities for sounds, but still, we're past the chance of seeing another Hendrix or EVH, I don't think anyone is going to truly change the game like they did

[Slowy]

We're past the chance of seeing another Hendrix or EVH, I don't think anyone is going to truly change the game like they did.

Potential future Epic Fail comment.
Duly noted.

[Hot_Grits]

Haha I feel the same, but as an older shop guy said to me in the 80s: people said there was nowhere to go after Hendrix.

It feels like there's very little room to move, but you never know.

[GrantB]

Which makes me think again about where the next game-changer is coming from.

Good question.

I think the problem is that people that ask that question (not necessarily you) are often looking at things from a heavy/classic rock perspective. And no, that stuff is not going anywhere much, so it's unlikely that anything game changing will ever come from there again. The style has shot its bolt. Perhaps Joe Bonamassa IS the next game changer, but he's changing a game that doesn't interest me.

Also, music is so fragmented, it's hard for something to have as much crossover as some years ago... look at all the varieties of metal that are out there, all the things that are described as [whatever]core and so on. It gets hard to please everyone at the same time. Especially in a world where you can opt out of the mass media altogether.

And older people like myself (50) that have heard a heap of the records the younguns are inspired by are the hardest to please of all.

But there's certainly a lot of stuff happening out there, even with guitar. The game is changing in a thousand playing fields at once. I often get the Pitchfork app to suggest music to me on Spotify: I have never heard any of those bands before nor do I ever come across the same band twice

Well put.

There's innovation happening in music in general and with the guitar as well, but if you're looking for that next huge guitar innovator through a classic rock or metal lens then it's going to be hard to imagine one coming along soon. It might happen ...and it might not. In metal you have crazier shredders than ever and the Djent guys have their thing going on, but as with many genres, the new stuff that is going on has relatively little to do with guitar solos.

One thing that is different between now and the 80s is players are really aware of the sheer breadth of ways the guitar can be used creatively. There also seem to be more players that draw from many different styles effectively, mixing things up. I reckon this is often a way to keep things sounding fresh in the absence of the kinds of bursts of innovation that happened to single genres, like technical rock guitar in the 80s or the first wave of sampling.

Also I don't think it's much to be just a skilled guitar player any more. These days musicians are far more involved with the creation of everything to do with their music, so the use of imagination is across everything. That focus on squeezing something new out of the guitar is kind of narrow thinking compared to working with everything available to make new music.

That's how I see it also HG....and I'm cool with it.

[hamo]

The greatest innovation is definitely coming from the "metal" scene, extended range guitars and 8 / 9 / 10+ strings,

More than ten strings? Who would have thought of using something like that?