Open back bass combos

[Polar Bear]

What about a jansen bassman 50 into an open back 2x12 or similar?

[Vince]

Sounds like you're saying that when you listen to a recording on a solid state stereo you can't hear the different between a valve amp and a solid state amp.

To me it sounds like he's saying that the 60s tone you're after is coming to you through a modern SS amp, so all you really need is some sort of emulator rather than an actual 60s amp (which would cost a packet anyway)

[Pakehendrix]

Sounds like you're saying that when you listen to a recording on a solid state stereo you can't hear the different between a valve amp and a solid state amp.

To me it sounds like he's saying that the 60s tone you're after is coming to you through a modern SS amp, so all you really need is some sort of emulator rather than an actual 60s amp (which would cost a packet anyway)

This.


Oh, and I can't stand it when people who bi-amp with Hiwatts and Edens and dual 8x10s, agonise over the capacitance of leads and the sonic characteristics of their matched tubes...and then run a six unit rack case with digital compression and effects.

[thehenderson]

Sounds like you're saying that when you listen to a recording on a solid state stereo you can't hear the different between a valve amp and a solid state amp.

To me it sounds like he's saying that the 60s tone you're after is coming to you through a modern SS amp, so all you really need is some sort of emulator rather than an actual 60s amp (which would cost a packet anyway)

But the recording is of a real one, I don't understand why an emulator through my solid state stereo would nessiarily sound like a recording of a tube amp through my solid state stereo. Guitar rig through my solid state stereo doesn't sound like a recording of my valve guitar amp through the same stereo. Keen to more fully understand what you mean.

[Rog]

I genuinly don't understand that comment. Please spell it out to me like you would to a child.
Sounds like you're saying that when you listen to a recording on a solid state stereo you can't hear the different between a valve amp and a solid state amp. If that's what you mean then I think you'll find very few people on NZG are hearing what you're hearing.

I think that with emulation and effects both at the amp and in the studio, its damn near impossible to reliably state that the amp you're hearing on a recording is valve or SS. Live is another matter.

Of course, a guitar amp and a bass amp really are different beasts (or at the very least, have different riders) with one real commonality: they are both designed to amplify an instrument.

Most riders on the guitar amps love to have a bit of a rough journey, with grit in their teeth and their beast of choice singing in delightful harmonic response to their careful stroking of the strings and usually their egos.

MOST bassists otoh, want to hear a clear bassline that cuts through the mishmash of drums and distorted guitars to give that clear bottom line that drives the band. Not for them the fancy widgets of technology. However, they do need more power to make that happen. There is a limit to how much power you can really drive with valves, before an amp gets either too heavy or too expensive. Solid state amps allow this to happen at a far lower cost and thus a compromise is reached where ultimate tone becomes far less value than it does to guitarists.

Long-time bassists understand this.
Guitarists generally have a hard time doing so.

[Rog]

Getting back to open back bass combos, I do have a feeling that my old Fountain 2x12 bass combo was 1/3 open back, but it was so long ago that I could easily be wrong there. Otherwise, every bass amp I've ever had has been airtight or ported/throated at most.

[Timi]

Love bass amps with valve pre-amps and solid state main amplification. Hate bass amps with entirely valve signal path. Sound muddy and crap. Currently playing a Genz Benz Shuttle 6.0. Can get up to 600 watts (currently only 300 with a single 12") and weighs almost nothing. No point breaking your back these days when technology's caught up.

I've played one of those Genz heads, total opposite of every tube head I've played, different to most SS amps I've played too. If the Genz is your vibe I can totally understand you not liking all tube heads. While I do own a micro head (a GK) for convenience and touring, I am in no hurry to sell my backbreaker. For the sound I like technology hasn't "caught up", but it's close enough for playing live.

If you really want the authentic 60s sound, go for either the Tech21 VT Bass, or a Catalinbread SFT at 18V.

I think the VT is waaaaay too hyped for a 60s sound. SFT is way more natural.

Mark I doubt you will find any open back bass combos made in the last 40 years. Most boutique bass gear is either high power tube stuff, or super wang transparent SS. I could imagine you loving a 60s Ampeg B15 and for some reason no boutique clones of stuff like that exist, probably because it's not what most bass players are into. I would assume that most B15s still around are in studios because they aren't super loud by todays standards.

[Pakehendrix]

My understanding of preamps and power amps is that the preamp takes the extremely quiet signal from the instrument and influences it with EQ and a higher voltage, and then the power amp adds loads more gain and makes it loud enough to drive the speakers/influences how the speakers are driven.

When it comes to bass amplification, you tend to be playing much cleaner, and so not looking for power-amp induced breakup - you're looking more for the 'character' that gets introduced by the preamp. There's probably ten million people who would argue either way, but that has been my experience and why I chose the amp that I did and run the effects that I do. Power tube breakup and distortion in bass amps just doesn't sound right to me, and I doubt you'll find many (far more experienced) bassists attempting to recreate the 60s sound in such an anal 'authentic' fashion, no matter how 'authentic' they are about everything else.

So in that regard, I think it's far more important to get the right 'preamp' sound, and consider the power amp to be the loudness factor, not the character - I am 99% certain that this has been the way since the 1960s, too - because the B-15 was always considered underpowered. Which is why I agree with the sentiment that a solid state power amp is going to have very little effect on the 'authenticity' of your tone.

[Capt. Black]

.....If that's what you mean then I think you'll find very few people on NZG are hearing what you're hearing.

And there you have it. NZG in a nutshell

[Vince]

But the recording is of a real one, I don't understand why an emulator through my solid state stereo would nessiarily sound like a recording of a tube amp through my solid state stereo.

Oh, no... I don't think Rocky was suggesting you play bass through your stereo. I might be wrong, but I *think* he meant that you don't need an actual tube amp to have a tube amp sound.

The bottom line is...

If you want thump, punch, thud and all those words that are used in relation to bass, you NEED a clean sound. Clean vs distorted is like the different between being hit with a sledge hammer and being hit with a mattress. Or something. But you can't have a decent punchy sound with woolly edges. And THAT's a big reason why bass players have been using SS amps for decades. And the power thing that Rog mentioned as well. It's not as it's never occurred to anyone until this arvo.

[Capt. Black]

Pre-amps schme-amps. Any amps and or emulation ptooey!

Ribbon mics. That's where your sixties recorded bass sound lives.

[Pakehendrix]

Pre-amps schme-amps. Any amps and or emulation ptooey!

Ribbon mics. That's where your sixties recorded bass sound lives.

The evil GAS MONSTER strikes again!

[Rog]

Pre-amps schme-amps. Any amps and or emulation ptooey!
Ribbon mics. That's where your sixties recorded bass sound lives.

I did some recording at Radio NZ 2XP in the late '60s. Even then it was DI'd to the board.

[rocklander]

So in that regard, I think it's far more important to get the right 'preamp' sound, and consider the power amp to be the loudness factor, not the character - I am 99% certain that this has been the way since the 1960s, too - because the B-15 was always considered underpowered. Which is why I agree with the sentiment that a solid state power amp is going to have very little effect on the 'authenticity' of your tone.

this is where I was headed with my statement.
"I'm not going to get that authentic 60's sound from a solid state power amp" huh? how'd you hear it in the first place? you weren't around in the 60's to hear it, so I made a huge leap of assumption that you'd listened to that authentic 60's sound via a solid state amp. get the sound you want via the devices that colour it (pre-amp should do it in this case), then amplify.. or stand closer to it.

[rocklander]

Pre-amps schme-amps. Any amps and or emulation ptooey!
Ribbon mics. That's where your sixties recorded bass sound lives.

I did some recording at Radio NZ 2XP in the late '60s. Even then it was DI'd to the board.

phhffttt.. lies.. everyone knows that if you can remember the 60's you weren't really there.. so where were you Rog? where huh? huh?