design ideas - 2 wrongs don't make a...

[Danger Mouse]

I read that before... never thought of that interpretation though... but you're right!

[rocklander]

once upon a time goldstar was the samick of electronics. ~10 years ago (after making their fortune out of throw away rubbish) they implemented (at the time) the highest quality control standards of any electronics company in the world. LG (rebranded goldstar) is now (all snobbery aside) a very good quality product at a reasonable price. hmmmmm

[Capt. Black]

Yep. Amazing transition.

It's happening with Cort guitars as Kristie recent posts pointed out.

[Bg]

once upon a time goldstar was the samick of electronics. ~10 years ago (after making their fortune out of throw away rubbish) they implemented (at the time) the highest quality control standards of any electronics company in the world. LG (rebranded goldstar) is now (all snobbery aside) a very good quality product at a reasonable price. hmmmmm

that coincided with them opening a factory in Washington, Tyne and Wear in the UK.... perhaps just a spooky coincidence... and its not much of a rebranding exercise as the company name is Lucky Goldstar - or LG....

[Bg]

but samick will always be.... samick


in 30 years time they will be Wowrarecollectible, and the only ones that last will be the ones kept in closets, the ones that are played will be smashed in desperation or abandoned in favour of a new Made in Indonesia Squire Strat.

Makes you wonder about those wowrarecollectible pieces of poo from the 'lawsuit era' eh

[ash]

So Ash, what do you know about the revered Mr Bennet and why is he just not that impressive?

I hunted high and low to discover anything I could find on the dude last year. At least 95% of the references I found were Samick propaganda. I recall there was only one reference that did not appear to be directly Samick produced.

Seems that he is a Nashville based studio owner first, a producer second, a guitar player third and has some undefined experience in guitar fiddling, a distant third. So he's basically no-one in particular. And I couldn't find anything to qualify his position as a flagbearer or figurehead for the brand. Its not clear whether he's a musical studio owner or a design studio owner.

Not that I care so much who he is, but it bugs me that people are sucked into the insinuation that he is some kind of guitar god when no actual evidence of such divinity exists. Kind of like brands who loudly proclaim "Designed in Upper Buttcrack, USA" when the goods are made in China to Chinese designs of Chinese materials and Chinese methods with a USA designed badge slapped on it.

[ash]

And another thing. Samick are by far the biggest guitar producer in the world. It was something like 40,000 guitars a month in 2004 from at least four factories in Korea, China and Indonesia. Most of the brands around have Samick content, notably including Epiphone, Schecter, Fender, Duesenberg and reputedly even Gibson necks.

Cortek are the second biggest and produce for many of the remaining brands we see out there, including some of the very highest level instruments of some big name brands.

It is foolish to blindly laud or dismiss an instrument based on its brand, heritage or country of origin. If more players would learn a bit more about what makes their guitar tick and why things are the way they are, the manufacturers wouldn't get away with pulling the wool so often and might then try it on less often. Unfortunately tribal allegiances are easier to follow and more heart warming to the average punter than evidence and science. Maybe its time to get over the dated preconceptions of what makes for quality and start paying attention to actual physical facts.

[rocklander]

So he's basically no-one in particular. And I couldn't find anything to qualify his position as a flagbearer or figurehead for the brand. Its not clear whether he's a musical studio owner or a design studio owner.

I'd heard that Vince Martin started the same way.. he seemed believable so beaurepairs hired him...

It is foolish to blindly laud or dismiss an instrument based on its brand, heritage or country of origin. If more players would learn a bit more about what makes their guitar tick and why things are the way they are, the manufacturers wouldn't get away with pulling the wool so often and might then try it on less often. Unfortunately tribal allegiances are easier to follow and more heart warming to the average punter than evidence and science. Maybe its time to get over the dated preconceptions of what makes for quality and start paying attention to actual physical facts.

if it feels good - play it?

[Lawrence]

It is foolish to blindly laud or dismiss an instrument based on its brand, heritage or country of origin. If more players would learn a bit more about what makes their guitar tick and why things are the way they are, the manufacturers wouldn't get away with pulling the wool so often and might then try it on less often. Unfortunately tribal allegiances are easier to follow and more heart warming to the average punter than evidence and science. Maybe its time to get over the dated preconceptions of what makes for quality and start paying attention to actual physical facts.

good on ya Ash

What is it about us guitar players that creates the dichotomy...on one hand we think of ourselves as creative, adventerous, maybe even rebels....yet when a new idea comes along it must conform to the fender/gibson rules or it is considerserd BAD

OK the world accepted Floyd Rose....but my beloved double ball strings (arguably the best stringing and tunng system ever designed ) has been a failure.

I havent tried a PRS 513...but I notice theyve stopped production....the reviews said it sounded good...but, like Maton, ..no one will buy a gat with pickups that look different..

Actually the variax is an interetsing case. casting aside its sound and playability, people criticise the lack of pickups...hello, the vast majority of the world great instruments dont have pickups...?????

enuff ranting...time to do some work....see y'all

[DarcyPerry]

Love my ASH guitar
It's a real star
Gonna go far
International superstar
Driving in my car
Turn on the radio
Listening to the blues

Um, yea, need more sleep

[Tsuken]

Ash, my personal predilections aside I do agree with you - perhaps because I had 13 years of great enjoyment of my Samick frankenstrat, and haven't really been impressed with Gibbys or Fenders - except I think one of each; a flatmate of Dylan's once had a Gibson LP that was rather nice, and DC's white mexi strat is a beautiful thing.

While I'm more likely to make a crack about Fender/Gibson being 2nd rate than anything else I know there are some out there that I like. Conversely while I've yet to play an Ibanez (any model) that didn't suit me, I know they must be there.

...actually that wasn't true, now I think about it. I played a 7-string Ibanez GAX thing which wasn't very nice. And I've never played their budget range.

Anyway (ramble ramble ramble) ... point is whatever it is, and wherever it comes from, I reckon you need to play it to know whether it's any good - for you.

[r4nd0m]

Oh Great! I sold off my Samicks and Ovations when I joined this Forum. Now you guys say there are nothing wrong with Samicks

[slash-ed]

And another thing. Samick are by far the biggest guitar producer in the world. It was something like 40,000 guitars a month in 2004 from at least four factories in Korea, China and Indonesia. Most of the brands around have Samick content, notably including Epiphone, Schecter, Fender, Duesenberg and reputedly even Gibson necks.

Cortek are the second biggest and produce for many of the remaining brands we see out there, including some of the very highest level instruments of some big name brands.

It is foolish to blindly laud or dismiss an instrument based on its brand, heritage or country of origin. If more players would learn a bit more about what makes their guitar tick and why things are the way they are, the manufacturers wouldn't get away with pulling the wool so often and might then try it on less often. Unfortunately tribal allegiances are easier to follow and more heart warming to the average punter than evidence and science. Maybe its time to get over the dated preconceptions of what makes for quality and start paying attention to actual physical facts.

What about World Factory?

[B45-12]

. . .
It is foolish to blindly laud or dismiss an instrument based on its brand, heritage or country of origin. If more players would learn a bit more about what makes their guitar tick and why things are the way they are, the manufacturers wouldn't get away with pulling the wool so often and might then try it on less often. Unfortunately tribal allegiances are easier to follow and more heart warming to the average punter than evidence and science. Maybe its time to get over the dated preconceptions of what makes for quality and start paying attention to actual physical facts.

Yes and no Ash - yes in the sense of looking for quality but there is a certain sort of 'art' or 'feel' beyond that I find. For example a lot of Chinese/Korean/Asian guitars are finely finished and beautifully built/lovely action BUT have all the 'feel' of a dead codfish.

You can equally find what appears to be a piece of crap, crudely made and finished that plays and sounds like a dream. Now part of the tribal alleigance is following that group or sound that inspires - I originally bought a J45 years ago becasue John Renbourne had one on a cover of his album and I liked the sound he got. Mine never sounded quite the same as his (partly because his was the old round shouldered J45 like Gibson make now, and partly because I'm not John Renbourne with his touch/skills etc) but I liked it's sound enough to keep it. Now if I add the info it's a mid 70's Gibson, overbraced, with a twisted neck, you'd proibably be surprised but that's what it is and it still sounds good/plays well.

In contrast I had from new what appeared to be a very nice Ibanez performer once that was brilliantly made and dead easy action all the way up the neck BUT it allways sounded dead to me and felt stiff to play even allowing for the differnce between the two brands and despite several trips to luthiers and them eventually saying 'there's nothing wrong with it'. So in the end it was sold with no regrets.

So I reckon that science only goes so far plus what one luthier thinks is the bees knees another derides or disregards. A lovely example of this was the Gibson mark series of guitars - the accoustic theory was there as was the oversight of a fine maker and they were certainly not cheap BUT they did not sell - whereas the cheapie LG0 sold by the bucketload.

I find this a part of the glory of the whole subject - you can go to a guitar maker and have them fit an instrument like a glove and it be your whole world or even with it, you still go back to the $5-00 Yamahaha - you cannot tell.

[DarcyPerry]

Hmmm. This may be an East is East, West is West argument. I have found any PRS I've played feels slinky and sounds weak. Kinda PRS'y. No doubt, a smooth instrument. Well crafted, etc. Just not me. Gibson are IMHO over priced. They have a sound I like though. Damn it. I like it a lot.