The Pedal Echo Thread (no, I dont mean echo pedal)

[MogwaiBoy]

And I love the strum-tempo thing.

It's a novel idea and is perfect in the studio for matching your delay tempo to the drumtrack. It's just too time consuming to do it in the middle of a song + it drops out your signal entirely = unuseable on stage.

No worries anyway as the Timeline tap works a treat on any mode/preset

[Conway]

I see the Flashback X4 has added a tap tempo switch.

[bender]

And I love the strum-tempo thing.

It's a novel idea and is perfect in the studio for matching your delay tempo to the drumtrack. It's just too time consuming to do it in the middle of a song + it drops out your signal entirely = unuseable on stage./quote]

Totally agree. The strum tempo thing is way easier when practising but nothing beats a footswitch tap tempo when playing with a real drummer.

[Scooter13]

but playing with drummers who change tempo at least 3 times a song, it's handy for me to quickly tap along with my foot rather than pausing.

Are they doing that on purpose? If not, pick the effect pedal up and throw it at their head. Works better than trying to tap to their sloppy playing.
I thought you Edge fans would be all over anything 2290 related? Or is the "2290" on the flashback pedal a gimmick name for a normal sounding digital delay?
There's loads of modulated delay TC toneprints that sound really cool by the way. And using the smartphone app to change between them makes trying them out a really quick and painless process. Wouldn't want to do it mid-set mind you.

[jeremyb]

but playing with drummers who change tempo at least 3 times a song, it's handy for me to quickly tap along with my foot rather than pausing.

Are they doing that on purpose? If not, pick the effect pedal up and throw it at their head. Works better than trying to tap to their sloppy playing.
I thought you Edge fans would be all over anything 2290 related? Or is the "2290" on the flashback pedal a gimmick name for a normal sounding digital delay?
There's loads of modulated delay TC toneprints that sound really cool by the way. And using the smartphone app to change between them makes trying them out a really quick and painless process. Wouldn't want to do it mid-set mind you.

The 2290 on my alter ego (PGS modified flashback...) sounds just like Bad / Pride etc thru my AC15, assume that was exactly what they were going for!

[rickenbackerkid]

but playing with drummers who change tempo at least 3 times a song, it's handy for me to quickly tap along with my foot rather than pausing.

Are they doing that on purpose? If not, pick the effect pedal up and throw it at their head. Works better than trying to tap to their sloppy playing.

Like very much. Drummers who can’t keep time perfectly should use a metronome live. (of course they should not play like robots though)

I thought you Edge fans would be all over anything 2290 related? Or is the "2290" on the flashback pedal a gimmick name for a normal sounding digital delay?

I’ve used a real 2290 and that was one reason why I got a Nova Delay. Which sounds NOTHING like a 2290, I found very quickly. The closest thing that I have found to a 2290 is the Eventide TimeFactor, on Vintage Mode set to 14 bits. Haven’t tried the flashback yet.

[bender]

Like very much. Drummers who can’t keep time perfectly should use a metronome live. (of course they should not play like robots though)

I'd just like to go on record saying that I think this is utterly ridiculous. If someone were to try this with my drummer I'd throw the metronome at their head.

I'm sure it's appropriate at times but for every kind of music I'd like to see or play live it's completely inappropriate.

[rickenbackerkid]

Like very much. Drummers who can’t keep time perfectly should use a metronome live. (of course they should not play like robots though)

I'd just like to go on record saying that I think this is utterly ridiculous. If someone were to try this with my drummer I'd throw the metronome at their head.

I'm sure it's appropriate at times but for every kind of music I'd like to see or play live it's completely inappropriate.

indeed, i understand completely that in some styles of music it’s epic fail. I should have probably added a disclaimer. I was meaning rock music. How many covers bands (And I include church music here) have you seen who speed up and slow down constantly? I’ve seen many, sadly.

Even in more flowing music drummers should practice with a metronome, that’s how you learn really good time keeping. When I’m drumming, which for me is in church music only, I start and stop the click. Sometimes a song needs to breathe and slow down, and if I feel that vibe, I stop the click. I can always pick it up again later. LIke wise for a big final chorus where speeding up a bit is a good thing, stop the click and go for it.

Another disclaimer, I don’t know everything and I’m not a great drummer.

[Polar Bear]

Like very much. Drummers who can’t keep time perfectly should use a metronome live. (of course they should not play like robots though)

I'd just like to go on record saying that I think this is utterly ridiculous. If someone were to try this with my drummer I'd throw the metronome at their head.

I'm sure it's appropriate at times but for every kind of music I'd like to see or play live it's completely inappropriate.

All the best drummers play to click. John Bonham in particular, I mean just listen to every Zeppelin song, they only change tempo everytime he hits the snare.

Good drummers swing, and that means sometimes going out of time. It's rock and roll, and should be played as such. If someone asked me to play to a metronome live, I'd cut their hands off.

[Conway]

Can I just say, if the audience doesn't notice your drummer going off tempo, they're probably won't care about the timing of your delay repeats.

[bender]

Can I just say, if the audience doesn't notice your drummer going off tempo, they're probably won't care about the timing of your delay repeats.

It's useful if you play in a band that relies heavily on improvising. I've played in a number of bands that simply make shit up on the spot and I've found it useful to be able to adjust tempo synched FX on the fly. That being said, I don't use any tempo synched FX any more.

[bender]

Even in more flowing music drummers should practice with a metronome, that’s how you learn really good time keeping. When I’m drumming, which for me is in church music only, I start and stop the click. Sometimes a song needs to breathe and slow down, and if I feel that vibe, I stop the click. I can always pick it up again later. LIke wise for a big final chorus where speeding up a bit is a good thing, stop the click and go for it.

Serious question: How do you start and stop the click while you're drumming?

[rickenbackerkid]

All the best drummers play to click. John Bonham in particular, I mean just listen to every Zeppelin song, they only change tempo everytime he hits the snare.

Good drummers swing, and that means sometimes going out of time. It's rock and roll, and should be played as such. If someone asked me to play to a metronome live, I'd cut their hands off.

Bonham and Led Zep could get away with it, due to the extremely high quality of musicianship. Bonhams timing was insanely good, and JPJ locked in the groove like a machine.

It is posible to swing with a click, by the way. You can push part of the bar without going all the way off the click. And as I said, you can always stop it, if the song needs to breathe a bit.
Incidentally, remind me not to ever ask you to play to a click, I like my hands too much

Serious question: How do you start and stop the click while you're drumming?

It’s easy enough to hit the start/stop button in between snare hits, unless you are playing some mad breakbeat.

And that’s enough for me about clicks. If you don’t like ‘em, good for you, stay colorful and have fun. I personally like the stability and the creative possibilities around syncing lights, video and musical parts that are near impossible to recreate live. Like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuFbRy2_quE
It’s to a click, and it would not work any other way, and it’s one of my favourite songs.

[Pastasauce]

Can I just say, if the audience doesn't notice your drummer going off tempo, they're probably won't care about the timing of your delay repeats.

It's the delay repeats freaking out the drummer I'm worried about.

[KentNZ]

And that’s enough for me about clicks. If you don’t like ‘em, good for you, stay colorful and have fun. I personally like the stability and the creative possibilities around syncing lights, video and musical parts that are near impossible to recreate live. Like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuFbRy2_quE
It’s to a click, and it would not work any other way, and it’s one of my favourite songs.

The last two minutes of that is awesome! I'd love to know how they're doing it. Surely some ableton, maybe some hardware loopers... but... wondering if its a central system or they're syncing/timecoding a bunch of different hardware/software...

Very cool. There's still a hint of that "looping arrangements are very lineal" vibe about it (ie dynamics dont often return to disctinctive song structures... or particularly strong melody) but still, very cool.