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This topic is split from a discussion that developed in the Get Of My Lawn Thread. The previous post can be found here >>> http://www.nzguitars.com/forum/viewtopi ... 78#p491285

benderissimo wrote:Yup. Movie and TV studios need to look a bit closer at the music industry (which is still blinkered and backwards). It hasn't taken all that long to go from "people are using this newfangled MP3 thing and Napster to steal our stuff!" to legitimate downloads (driven by low prices and easy availability) being the main methof of sales and a huge source of income for the industry.

Mmmm you just have to look at Amazon's kindle store, I've spent a ton on ebooks since I got a kindle, whereas I hadn't bought an actual book in years, because at $40-50 I don't think its worth it, and libraries generally have it.... Same with the iphone, haven't bought software or games since the 90's and now I've spent a ton on the iphone apps, and thats simply because the value for money is there

The main problem with ebooks is the authors getting screwed...

I use my iPad for reading (who the fuck takes it in the toilet?) but I try to buy two real books a month. They're really not that expensive on the whole, and I consider the whole book-buying experience part of the price. Go to a real bookshop (my favourite is TimeOut bookstore in Mt. Eden) and it's just a really cool thing to experience and buy - chat to the salespeople, get recommendations, talk to other customers...it's great. Personally I don't really think the price argument comes into it with books - you can actually trial them for free in these places called "libraries".

Pakehendrix wrote:The main problem with ebooks is the authors getting screwed...

I use my iPad for reading (who the fuck takes it in the toilet?) but I try to buy two real books a month. They're really not that expensive on the whole, and I consider the whole book-buying experience part of the price. Go to a real bookshop (my favourite is TimeOut bookstore in Mt. Eden) and it's just a really cool thing to experience and buy - chat to the salespeople, get recommendations, talk to other customers...it's great. Personally I don't really think the price argument comes into it with books - you can actually trial them for free in these places called "libraries".

I doubt the authors are getting any less than they do for real books, thing I love most about the kindle is I'm surfing the net and find a book I'd really like to read thats been recommended, 30 seconds later its on my kindle, that rocks, number of times I've walked into decent book shops and found absolutely nothing to excite my book GAS

This is a really interesting article - it's a couple of years old, but things really haven't improved for authors:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 70022.html

I can't remember the exact share for authors (it is pretty high compared to physical books) but the problem I suppose is that you're less likely to get newcomers, and more likely to end up with fifty million Robert Pattinsons and Stephanie Meyers. You also get Amazon being naughty, and not to mention the rampant (though lesser-known) piracy. While lots of authors are racking up huge sales (thousands per month), they are usually doing so for extremely low prices, which ends up undermining them later on.

For example, if the share was 50% (massive in oldschool terms), even selling 2000 books a month for 99c is not going to provide an income on which you could live; if you were to use your newfound popularity and launch a new book for the recommended $USD9.99 cap, your sales would probably drop to double-digits instantly.

Whitcoulls et al. are partly responsible for turning people off books, I think - I've never found big chainstore staff knowledgeable, but it really is critical with bookstores that the salespeople are able to help you find something you might like. Music, movies etc...you know your tastes. But books are a different matter, hence why I always go to smaller bookstores.

Interesting. I recall a few years back, one of the authors of computer/technical books was urging visitors to his website to buy from Amazon. As an affiliate he made more in commission on any sale that came from a click through to Amazon, than he made from his royalties.

It's time for booksellers to get smart, before they miss out the way the recording industry did. I rarely buy books now because I have a living room wall that has a bookshelf fom floor to ceiling and a store room full of boxes of books.

They'd all fit on my iPad and the only thing I'd miss is not being able to read in the bath. Oh and the price, 60 bucks for a new hardback or 17 bucks for a downloadable copy, no competition.

Interesting to note some bands offer downloads rather than a cd .... Or even vinyl.... So why not the book industry.

The thing is that with music, there are other opportunities to make money (gigs, merch). But with books, that is one person's (mostly full time) job and only real source/opportunity for income.

Personally I'd love to work out something where authors could be paid to work with kids, because the reality is that book signings etc. are not all that popular, and there are only so many university tutoring positions available.

I don't doubt that lots of money can be made from ebooks, but the industry is a mess and it's certainly even more of a risk to go for a writers grant than at any other time. It's also a risk to release (or self-publish) only in digital format - it becomes much, much less likely that a publisher will invest anything in the authors/products, potentially causing a problem whereby books become an expected freebie, because there aren't the same distribution networks available to individuals.

It could be great, but I do predict irrational moves from publishers.

Capt. Black wrote:Interesting. I recall a few years back, one of the authors of computer/technical books was urging visitors to his website to buy from Amazon. As an affiliate he made more in commission on any sale that came from a click through to Amazon, than he made from his royalties.

I'm sure that's true - the problem though is that prices have to be adjusted according to how people 'value' the product, and I suspect prices will keep dropping, or you're gonna see a big increase in DRM breaking - and if an author's work is available completely free, they really have no other way to make money when people decide not to pay for the work.

(would this be good as a separate thread? I think it's pretty interesting...)

Pakehendrix wrote:The thing is that with music, there are other opportunities to make money (gigs, merch). But with books, that is one person's (mostly full time) job and only real source/opportunity for income.

They could do readings.

BG wrote:It's time for booksellers to get smart, before they miss out the way the recording industry did. I rarely buy books now because I have a living room wall that has a bookshelf fom floor to ceiling and a store room full of boxes of books.

They'd all fit on my iPad and the only thing I'd miss is not being able to read in the bath. Oh and the price, 60 bucks for a new hardback or 17 bucks for a downloadable copy, no competition.

Interesting to note some bands offer downloads rather than a cd .... Or even vinyl.... So why not the book industry.

$60 for a hardback?! Jeebus! The last one I bought was closer to $30.

You'd see some serious changes if authors were able to self-publish as a viable option.

Vince wrote:

Pakehendrix wrote:The thing is that with music, there are other opportunities to make money (gigs, merch). But with books, that is one person's (mostly full time) job and only real source/opportunity for income.

They could do readings.

They're authors Vince, not psychics.

Vince wrote:

Pakehendrix wrote:The thing is that with music, there are other opportunities to make money (gigs, merch). But with books, that is one person's (mostly full time) job and only real source/opportunity for income.

They could do readings.

That was a joke, right?

benderissimo wrote:
$60 for a hardback?! Jeebus! The last one I bought was closer to $30.

You'd see some serious changes if authors were able to self-publish as a viable option.

$60 is pretty extreme...I wouldn't pay more than $30-$40 for a hardback, unless it was the Bogner manual or something.

Problem with self-publication is all of those steps involved in the proofreading, redrafting, editing stages - they are critical, and usually damned expensive. I really would hate to find that authors had started skipping those steps as a cost-cutting measure...

Vince wrote:

Pakehendrix wrote:The thing is that with music, there are other opportunities to make money (gigs, merch). But with books, that is one person's (mostly full time) job and only real source/opportunity for income.

They could do readings.

In recent years ive happily paid to see terry pratchett and bill Bryson on tour and would again.

New release hardbacks are regularly around the 60 buck mark and yes it is extreme when you can download for less than a third.

Cheaper from mighty ape or amazon but then you're not supporting local shops right.

But they're established and well-loved authors - would you have seen them if they only had one or two books to their name? There's many years of work, experience, luck and sales from both of those guys, which is all very well. But it'd be extremely unlikely someone like Eowyn Ivey would be able to go on a book tour - even someone established and respected like Daniel Woodrell probably wouldn't pull an audience.