Educate me about Offsets

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KNNZ
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Re: Educate me about Offsets

Post by KNNZ »

Lostininverness wrote: Would it be fair to say that fender offsets are a different animal to, say a fano, which has completely different hardware, pick ups etc?
Yes

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Re: Educate me about Offsets

Post by StrummersOfThunder »

The switching looks complicated - is this an essential part of the sound, or can it be simplified like the American Professional series?

The switching is actually pretty simple. Most stay away from the rhythm or jazz circuit. This just has lower value pots and tends to just be the neck pickup. Then if youre talking jazzmaster you just have a standard three way switch, or with a jag you have on/off for each pickup and a 'strangle' switch which is just a high pass filter type thingy i think and mostly I leave it off.

How essential is the traditional bridge on the Jag/Jazzmaster as compared to a bigsby type...

Feels totally different to a bigsby to me. The JM/Jag trem has a silky wavery deeper dive than the bigsby and i believe it is easier to play with a little more control. I.e. easier to hold the trem and subtly tremolo each note as you play it (see intro to bombora by the Altantics). I find the set up a little more adjustable to liking without too much dissasembly due to the tension screw

Do the original type pickups make the difference as well??
The JM and Jag pickups really are a little different to other offerings. I like both but prefer jags. The JM has a lot of squish and compression when pushed. Jags stay tight and have a tubular sound to them. They have a gun like immediacy which is great for surf style rapid picking.



Mostly I think I dig the styling of these instruments. They remind me of 50s/60s american automobile or aircraft styling.

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Re: Educate me about Offsets

Post by bender »

I think that a proper offset vibrato is an essential part of the sound and feel of a fender offset. There’s something beautifully subtle about what you can do with them.

Pickups are an interesting beast -Jazzmaster pickups are a bit more midrangey and compressed and Jaguar pickups go both higher and lower and are also punchier. Jag switching really isn’t that complex- basically just a switch per pickup. If that bothers you, the American Pro ones come with a 4-way tele type instead. Easy.

I don’t think you necessarily have to stick to the standard pickup options, but you might as well stay in the jangly zone. WRHB and gold foils are both cool variants. More pickup options with a jazzmaster typically.

Bridges- a Mastery is definitely best- Mustang bridges work, but the string spacing is usually too wide so they’re not ideal. I’ve been through them all and prefer the mastery by a wide margin.

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Re: Educate me about Offsets

Post by sunburster »

I like the way they (jaguars and jazzmasters) look, feel, play and sound better than any other guitars. Very versatile instruments with unique voices. It's as simple as that (for me).

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Re: Educate me about Offsets

Post by StrummersOfThunder »

I think the other thing to mention about these guitars is that there is a knack to setting them up to play well. There are some little idiosyncracies that are important to get em feeling right.
1. Nut lube. I put a bit of hard lube on the nut slots with a tooth pick.
2. Neck angle. All my offsets have benefited from a significant shim
3. Bridge - many like the stock JM/Jag bridge but I find for very hard playing (like the fast surf runs and hard hits) that strings dislodge. MAstery is the best but mustang will do in a pinch (as per bender)
4. Break angle at bridge. This is where the shim is your friend. Please resist getting a buzz stop. They are horrid.
5. Its common for the string wraps near the ball to rub on the dome screws on the top of the tail piece (the ones that secure the trem fulcrum pieces under the tail piece plate). The rubbing occurs when you use the vibrato. This can be solved by taking the screws out and re-inserting them from the undersite of the plate.
6. Some jags had staggered pole pieces some flate. JM has all flat. I have found, that for what ever reason, the output on the D string seems to be significantly less than others. Particularly on the JMs. I tap the D magnet higher from behind (carefully) and this compensates quite well.
7. String guage. Personal choice I know but I've found 12s to be nice on the shorter scale Jag and 11s for the JMs.
8. Electronics. I think the jag is ok kept stock but the JM can benefit from a resistor soldered across the outside lugs of the 1 meg vol and tone pots (something like a 1meg resistor I think) gives you a sound that has a frequency response a little less shrill. A lot of people struggle with the glassy highs of the JM/Jags.
9. Spring tension. The JM/Jag vibrato is one of leos best inventions IMO. Finding the sweet spot in terms of spring tension is where its at. If you wind up with a japanese instrument you will find that the spring is too lax and doesnt give you the subtle waiver of the USA gear so finding and AVRI replacement is advisable. The japanese gear is acceptable but may leave you wanting.
10. Trem arm. The next secret to great trem is a good fitting trem arm. The mastery has this in spades. AVRI isnt bad either as it has a collect that clips somewhat. Japanese models are often loose. There are various ways to deal with this. I use plumbers tape. Others bend the stem slightly so it jams in. There are comercial upgrades available for the collet. What ever you use the idea is that there is little or no play in the stem, aoiding the dreaded knocking sound with use.
11. String vs Collet. Some fenders Ive owned, the B string touches the trem collet as it passes adnd rubs/squeaks with trem use. This is solved by filing the edge of the collet slightly. Bit of industrial solution but it works.
12. Lastly, IMO, these are just great guitars to have fun customising in terms of pickguard, bridge, trem, knobbery, tuners, wiring etc. They are beautiful in their own right but really come into their own when the have a little more life breathed into them. I hope you find one you can bond with and put her to good use.

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Re: Educate me about Offsets

Post by jeremyb »

StrummersOfThunder wrote: 1. Nut lube.
StrummersOfThunder wrote: 1. Nut lube.
StrummersOfThunder wrote: 1. Nut lube.
StrummersOfThunder wrote: 1. Nut lube.
StrummersOfThunder wrote: 1. Nut lube.
StrummersOfThunder wrote: 1. Nut lube.
StrummersOfThunder wrote: 1. Nut lube.
StrummersOfThunder wrote: 1. Nut lube.
StrummersOfThunder wrote: 1. Nut lube.
StrummersOfThunder wrote: 1. Nut lube.
StrummersOfThunder wrote: 1. Nut lube.
StrummersOfThunder wrote: 1. Nut lube.
Slowy wrote: That's the problem; everything rewarding is just such hard work. Regret takes much less effort.

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Re: Educate me about Offsets

Post by StrummersOfThunder »

Yes Jeremy. I accept this was inevitable.
Did I discuss the loose nut that rims the jack hole.

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Re: Educate me about Offsets

Post by jeremyb »

StrummersOfThunder wrote:Yes Jeremy. I accept this was inevitable.
Did I discuss the loose nut that rims the jack hole.
Aroused.
Slowy wrote: That's the problem; everything rewarding is just such hard work. Regret takes much less effort.

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Re: Educate me about Offsets

Post by StrummersOfThunder »

jeremyb wrote:
StrummersOfThunder wrote:Yes Jeremy. I accept this was inevitable.
Did I discuss the loose nut that rims the jack hole.
Aroused.
You need to get out more

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Re: Educate me about Offsets

Post by H671 »

I had a Squier VM Jag & I shimmed the neck for a better break angle and upgraded the pickups with Duncans ( huge improvement) which took away the shrillness. The best mod was to fit flatwounds which is what Fender used on the original jaguars. I didn't have any problems with the bridge (light touch). For me the best feature was the rhythm circuit especially for low volumes at home - it sounded much fuller. I only sold it because I prefer semi hollows.
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Re: Educate me about Offsets

Post by sunburster »

StrummersOfThunder wrote: 5. Its common for the string wraps near the ball to rub on the dome screws on the top of the tail piece (the ones that secure the trem fulcrum pieces under the tail piece plate). The rubbing occurs when you use the vibrato. This can be solved by taking the screws out and re-inserting them from the undersite of the plate.
If you've already done 2) and 4) this will not be an issue. If your strings touch the dome screws your bridge is too low -- increasing the neck angle allows you to raise the bridge.
6. Some jags had staggered pole pieces some flate. JM has all flat. I have found, that for what ever reason, the output on the D string seems to be significantly less than others. Particularly on the JMs. I tap the D magnet higher from behind (carefully) and this compensates quite well.
I would not do that personally, and I'd never want to buy a pickup that has had this "mod". There is a risk of damage. If you want staggered pole JM pickups, I'd recommend you buy a set of Lollars.
7. String guage. Personal choice I know but I've found 12s to be nice on the shorter scale Jag and 11s for the JMs.
I use 10s on the stock American bridge on both JMs and Jags. Works perfectly and I like the sound and feel. Like you said, personal choice, but I'd like to point out 10s do work fine on these instruments.
8. Electronics. I think the jag is ok kept stock but the JM can benefit from a resistor soldered across the outside lugs of the 1 meg vol and tone pots (something like a 1meg resistor I think) gives you a sound that has a frequency response a little less shrill. A lot of people struggle with the glassy highs of the JM/Jags.
For JMs I roll the volume back to 8 or 9. This is a common trick that reduces the highs just enough. No need for adding resistors or whatnot.
11. String vs Collet. Some fenders Ive owned, the B string touches the trem collet as it passes adnd rubs/squeaks with trem use. This is solved by filing the edge of the collet slightly. Bit of industrial solution but it works.
With the stock bridge, you can move the strings horizontally to avoid this, but I've never had this be an issue on any offset I've owned.

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Re: Educate me about Offsets

Post by StrummersOfThunder »

I'd agree with some of that but was just giving a broad over view of the breadth of little tweaks that CAN be done to these guitars for user preference. Not saying any of them are a must. but I have personal experience with all of them and I use my guitars regularly under pretty testing conditions (any of you who have been at one of our gigs would attest to this) and I get a good live sound with very good tuning stability and playability so I stand by my reccommendations.


Even with the dome screws taken out of the equation ive had strings bust at the wrap. Mind you i am a heavy trem user. May relate to small burs at the insert?

I run a very low action and therefore my bridge height is often a bit lower than most. I do, as said, shim too but still found with my blue JM that the strings touched the domes so I inverted them. Easy and reversable.

10s ive never bonded with. I think id break quite a few too. I never do bends in surf music really, just hard quick picking a lot of the time. I find a thicker high E stands up to that sort of thing, sounds thicker in the mix and offers enough resistance to the pick.

I also wouldnt advise mucking round with pole pieces on valuable vintage JM pickups but i've done it on my jess L and av 62 pups without any issues and it works great. But of course you risk damage. Risk damage every time you take a guitar out of its case.

Rolling the tone back doesnt achieve the same effect as the resistor mod (see Bender for freaky sound guy physics explanation) and I can attest to this. I still roll the tone back when I have the resistor mod but it changes where the 'hump' is or resonant peak or something along those lines...

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Re: Educate me about Offsets

Post by mule »

Seems an appropriate question for this thread: any recommendations for where to purchase a mastery bridge?

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Re: Educate me about Offsets

Post by StrummersOfThunder »

mule wrote:Seems an appropriate question for this thread: any recommendations for where to purchase a mastery bridge?
Deluxe guitars carry them (aussie based) and ive had good service from them.
Rarely do they come up second hand (this says a lot about their goodness).
Another option would be scouting around for used gear that is mastery equiped and asking to buy the parts. Often a seller will have the original parts to hand and will be happy to oblige.

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Re: Educate me about Offsets

Post by bender »

Yeah, Strummers' post is a good consolidation of common offset tweaks.

The resistor mod to the volume pot is a really good way of taming the resonant spike that is present in 1meg pots without losing the bite and definition of a wide open volume pot. It's easy and reversible. Basically turns them into 500k pots with a slightly different sweep.

What I like about Fender offsets is that they are built like tanks, are really responsive and expressive (largely to do with the vibrato, but the pickups are part of it too), and have a really cool 60s futurism look.

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