The vintage market Nov 2010
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- GrantB
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The vintage market Nov 2010
A quick update. My views only and I have no responsibility to any decisions anyone might make based on my opinions. And vintage gat institutions in the US probably don't agree with some of what I'll say here because it's not in their interest and I am cynical.
When I say "vintage market" I am talking of the USA. We don't have one here in NZ or even Aussie. Importing guitars is relatively cheap and easy.
1. The dollar is buying around 77 US cents as of now.
2. The prices on many vintage pieces has taken a pounding due to baby boomers running out of liquid credit due to the property market crash.
3. Like the luxury watch market the high end stuff (1957-1960 Les Pauls are really this market) has dropped only marginally. Those buyers operate in a different financial quantum.
4. Less collectable models that grew fast in value in the mid 2000's have now had some heavy value reductions. Items with changed tuners or some non original parts have also taken a pounding.
5. Following eBay and Gbase it would seem that sale prices have also been affected by non instrument specialist vendors clearing either estate or assets from other non music specialist customers ("hey, I found this SG in my cupboard - can you sell please for me and take a fee"). In my view the sale prices of these units represents a true value less 20%. That 20% accounts for risk in buying something from photo's only on the internetz. Buyers will pay more for an expert opinion, but not as much as they used to. I.e. they deem the risk acceptable in this market.
6. My summary is, if you have been saving for years to buy a vintage guitar, in my view now would look to be a good time to look. Trouble is of course NZ has been hit by the same issues so we are also cash poor, dimishing asset rich. Me, I have ceased virtually all cash based trading which of course means all of these bargains I am seeing are only good to torture me with. Someone else go mad please and share your rewards with us all.
When I say "vintage market" I am talking of the USA. We don't have one here in NZ or even Aussie. Importing guitars is relatively cheap and easy.
1. The dollar is buying around 77 US cents as of now.
2. The prices on many vintage pieces has taken a pounding due to baby boomers running out of liquid credit due to the property market crash.
3. Like the luxury watch market the high end stuff (1957-1960 Les Pauls are really this market) has dropped only marginally. Those buyers operate in a different financial quantum.
4. Less collectable models that grew fast in value in the mid 2000's have now had some heavy value reductions. Items with changed tuners or some non original parts have also taken a pounding.
5. Following eBay and Gbase it would seem that sale prices have also been affected by non instrument specialist vendors clearing either estate or assets from other non music specialist customers ("hey, I found this SG in my cupboard - can you sell please for me and take a fee"). In my view the sale prices of these units represents a true value less 20%. That 20% accounts for risk in buying something from photo's only on the internetz. Buyers will pay more for an expert opinion, but not as much as they used to. I.e. they deem the risk acceptable in this market.
6. My summary is, if you have been saving for years to buy a vintage guitar, in my view now would look to be a good time to look. Trouble is of course NZ has been hit by the same issues so we are also cash poor, dimishing asset rich. Me, I have ceased virtually all cash based trading which of course means all of these bargains I am seeing are only good to torture me with. Someone else go mad please and share your rewards with us all.
"Man is the most insane species. He worships an invisible god and destroys a visible nature. Unaware that this nature he's destroying is this god he's worshipping." - Hubert Reeves
Re: The vintage market Nov 2010
Maybe we could have updated links like the TM thread? That way peeps can get up to date info and shell out some coinage
http://www.flickr.com/photos/69250680@N07/RuBear wrote:
You mean that it's ME that's responsible for you coming here? I'm feel sincerely guilty for putting the rest of you sods through the experience that is Benrocky.
- druz15
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Re: The vintage market Nov 2010
totally agree. Really wanna get a used Gibson SG or Les Paul but can't afford it at the moment.
If I get heaps of work over the holidays and the dollars still good, I might hock a few gats here and upgrade.
If I get heaps of work over the holidays and the dollars still good, I might hock a few gats here and upgrade.
BG wrote:I don't care if you worship god or you worship goats cocks
Re: The vintage market Nov 2010
I think I'd agree with that Grant...What's the Vintage Strat market like, same story?*UNIQUE* wrote:A quick update. My views only and I have no responsibility to any decisions anyone might make based on my opinions. And vintage gat institutions in the US probably don't agree with some of what I'll say here because it's not in their interest and I am cynical.
When I say "vintage market" I am talking of the USA. We don't have one here in NZ or even Aussie. Importing guitars is relatively cheap and easy.
1. The dollar is buying around 77 US cents as of now.
2. The prices on many vintage pieces has taken a pounding due to baby boomers running out of liquid credit due to the property market crash.
3. Like the luxury watch market the high end stuff (1957-1960 Les Pauls are really this market) has dropped only marginally. Those buyers operate in a different financial quantum.
4. Less collectable models that grew fast in value in the mid 2000's have now had some heavy value reductions. Items with changed tuners or some non original parts have also taken a pounding.
5. Following eBay and Gbase it would seem that sale prices have also been affected by non instrument specialist vendors clearing either estate or assets from other non music specialist customers ("hey, I found this SG in my cupboard - can you sell please for me and take a fee"). In my view the sale prices of these units represents a true value less 20%. That 20% accounts for risk in buying something from photo's only on the internetz. Buyers will pay more for an expert opinion, but not as much as they used to. I.e. they deem the risk acceptable in this market.
6. My summary is, if you have been saving for years to buy a vintage guitar, in my view now would look to be a good time to look. Trouble is of course NZ has been hit by the same issues so we are also cash poor, dimishing asset rich. Me, I have ceased virtually all cash based trading which of course means all of these bargains I am seeing are only good to torture me with. Someone else go mad please and share your rewards with us all.
She told me baby when you race today just take along my love with you, and if ya knew how much I love you baby, nothin' could go wrong with you.
- GrantB
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Re: The vintage market Nov 2010
I would say the key Fender models (Strat, Tele) haven't been hit so bad - but there's not really a lot on offer. If you're wanting 70's (post '73) these are now a bit cheaper...maybe expect to pick up a '76 for $4K NZD. '74/'73 back always go for more due to grey bum pups and last of the light woods. In saying that my bro in laws '76 is one of the best playing and sounding Strats I've ever come across.
As an example of good buying (assuming it's original) is http://www.gbase.com/gear/fender-strato ... 1972-white# so landed here with GST maybe $5.5K.
As an example of good buying (assuming it's original) is http://www.gbase.com/gear/fender-strato ... 1972-white# so landed here with GST maybe $5.5K.
"Man is the most insane species. He worships an invisible god and destroys a visible nature. Unaware that this nature he's destroying is this god he's worshipping." - Hubert Reeves
- mr_sooty
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Re: The vintage market Nov 2010
This one looks pretty nice:
http://cgi.ebay.com/1966-January-vintag ... 27b6486a28
...but this one here is pretty much my dream guitar....
http://cgi.ebay.com/Fender-Stratocaster ... 53e4103e0e
(where's the drool icon?)
http://cgi.ebay.com/1966-January-vintag ... 27b6486a28
...but this one here is pretty much my dream guitar....
http://cgi.ebay.com/Fender-Stratocaster ... 53e4103e0e
(where's the drool icon?)
- GrantB
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Re: The vintage market Nov 2010
mmm, that last one is nice. Michael is good to deal with - got a 335 from him once.
But both of those are too expensive in the current market and won't sell via auction at those prices.
But both of those are too expensive in the current market and won't sell via auction at those prices.
"Man is the most insane species. He worships an invisible god and destroys a visible nature. Unaware that this nature he's destroying is this god he's worshipping." - Hubert Reeves
- mr_sooty
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Re: The vintage market Nov 2010
Ok, now I'm drowning in my own drool:
http://www.gbase.com/gear/fender-strato ... cid-blue-2
http://www.gbase.com/gear/fender-strato ... cid-blue-2
- robnobcorncob
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Re: The vintage market Nov 2010
So what guitar models you reckon that has taken a price hammering?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/69250680@N07/RuBear wrote:
You mean that it's ME that's responsible for you coming here? I'm feel sincerely guilty for putting the rest of you sods through the experience that is Benrocky.
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Re: The vintage market Nov 2010
She's a beauty but it's sad that it obviously never saw the light of day or used in anger in a smoky bar. Kind of like some kids toy kept in it's box on a shelf.mr_sooty wrote:Ok, now I'm drowning in my own drool:
http://www.gbase.com/gear/fender-strato ... cid-blue-2
2024; I have explored the extent of the perimeter dome, there is no escape. I am become Morpheus
- GrantB
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Re: The vintage market Nov 2010
Look for 75 to 78 Fenders (leave 79 onwards alone) - some real bargains out there.Benrocky wrote:So what guitar models you reckon that has taken a price hammering?
67 onwards SG Specials
69 onwards SG's
70 onwards 335's and 355's have come back maybe 25% - still not cheap regardless
late 60's onwards Jazzmasters
Les Pauls - any non descript Standard from the 90's can be had for little money
Gretsch - Anniversaries are Gretch's cannon fodder for pricing. Anything upo to '67 is worth a look but '59's still hit a good number.
Good fun deals with changed parts - early 60's Melody Makers, re route for P90's, add a pigtail bridge and BAM, vintage tones from old wood (under $2K with mods). Gretsch Single Anni's - route for a bridge p/up and chuck on a Bigsby (under $2.5K with mods). Heaps more, but these top of mind.
"Man is the most insane species. He worships an invisible god and destroys a visible nature. Unaware that this nature he's destroying is this god he's worshipping." - Hubert Reeves
Re: The vintage market Nov 2010
Fantastic post there +100
Lots of useful info there for the bargain hunters.
Lots of useful info there for the bargain hunters.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/69250680@N07/RuBear wrote:
You mean that it's ME that's responsible for you coming here? I'm feel sincerely guilty for putting the rest of you sods through the experience that is Benrocky.
- robnobcorncob
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Re: The vintage market Nov 2010
Plotting an acquirement Benny?Benrocky wrote:Fantastic post there +100
Lots of useful info there for the bargain hunters.
- GrantB
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Re: The vintage market Nov 2010
No worries but only my views as stated. I've only played around in that market for maybe just under a decade, which in relative terms means I am a n00b.Benrocky wrote:Fantastic post there +100
Lots of useful info there for the bargain hunters.
But if anyone sees something they want an opinion on in the vintage market it's likely I can give one...always happy to help spend other peoples money
"Man is the most insane species. He worships an invisible god and destroys a visible nature. Unaware that this nature he's destroying is this god he's worshipping." - Hubert Reeves