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Ears wrote:

rocklander wrote: +find the layout you want and print it to normal a4 paper using a laserjet printer (not inkjet).
+take one musicworks pamphlet.. the paper they use is glossy (the toner will come away more easily), but disintegrates easily; cut out some pamphlet paper larger than the pcb on the white page and use magic tape (that invisible stuff like scotch - it goes through the printer again without getting stuck to the insides usually - can handle the heat) to tape it over the layout on that original piece of paper, then use the laserjet again to print over the top.. this will put the layout onto the musicworks pamphlet.

Thanks for this post rocklander, I read this a while back and wondered why you need to print twice, first time onto plain paper. Is it just to provide a waytemplete to place the glossy paper accurately or is it for another reason.?
Is there any reason you can't just run a full sheet of glossy through the printer without the first step, and cut to size later after printing. I'm a little confused on the reason for cutting it and sellotaping it to the a4 etc.

exactly.. I got into the habit from when I was using press'n'peel and at NZ$8 / sheet putting the lot through got pricey reeeeal quick.
so, yup.. it's just a template for where to put the other paper. tried glossy a while ago and wasn't so successful for me, but many others have and it is for them... not sure why I fail with it, but the musicworks pamphlet is the win for me

rocklander wrote:

jeremyb wrote:How do you cut your pcbs Rocky?

depends on where on the blank it is..
if it can be done, I use a metal ruler and a box cutter to score through the copper, then a few times through both sides of the fibreglass - bang it into the vice (wood either side to protect it) and just break along the score..

if it's like a cut 'out' of a blank then I use one of those hand held single ended hacksaw blade holder thingies down one edge, then back to the scoring, or hacksaw the other one depending on how I feel on the day.

filing down the edges makes for a 'flatter' pcb (no burrs sticking up) so the ironing process is more effective (if there's a burred edge or whatever the iron and toner don't make as good of a contact and usually makes for a transfer rail).

the hacksaw thingy:

Legend, thanks, I was using cut off wheels in my dremel but I kept destroying them and they're bloody expensive!!

jeremyb wrote:Legend, thanks, I was using cut off wheels in my dremel but I kept destroying them and they're bloody expensive!!

yup.. been there and nowhere near as straight a line as a 'snap' IME.

Grrrrrr had 4 failures now, remembered this thread so will have a crack at the rocky method, seems like a long time fir ironing tho??

For me, ironing is the hardest part. The rest is just a walk in the park. I was ironing for around 15mins, although most of the time just leaving the hot iron on the paper and pcb. Throwing the board in the freezer afterwards seems to help as Rocky suggests.

I've found spraying the paper lightly with water just before the ironing helps with the iron process - not soaked just damp. ComputerWorld mag or Dell brochures work well too, but a bit heavier than the Music Works flyers. Something else to try.

I only had to iron for about five minutes at most.
Having the PCB on a hard, flat surface is important to get even pressure. If the PCB can flex, it won't be in contact with the iron evenly. Wet paper will help the heat transfer.

Followed the rocky instructions to the letter and ended up with perfection, stoked!!

Cadsoft doesn't seem to offer free version of Eagle any more, or I can't find it on http://www.cadsoftusa.com/shop/pricing/?language=en

I recently used Freepcb http://www.freepcb.com/ it isn't crippled in board size or component number. It took me about two days to learn to use, for beginner it may appear daunting but give it a go, suggest just start a board up, insert 2 or three components, and muck about with nets, traces and footprint editing, you'll soon get the drift of it all. It has additional autorouter utility and can use another free program (see pdf manual) to print the Gerber files on your printer for the toner process should you not send them to a board house.
Only drawback is that it doesn't have a schematic editor or schematic capture to create netlists (not so hard to do by hand, if a little tedious) or do circuit simulations. There are free spice and capture programs out there though.

18 months ago I tried to learn ORCAD, http://www.cadence.com/products/orcad/p ... fault.aspx , but failed, I found you needed too much pro tech/engineering experience to cope with much of the terminology in regard to manufacturing specs, part cataloging etc. Made my head swim.

http://www.cadsoftusa.com/downloads/ ??

handlefras wrote:http://www.cadsoftusa.com/downloads/ ??

Whoops my mistake, sorry, crippled Eagle lite is still available from download page, I had expected it to be listed under products and prices, even if it is free.

one of my mates on G+ posted these links when we were talking about FPGAs and hacking ciruits together.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWnfnt2rNO0[/youtube]

http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2010/0 ... tchin.html

I haven't had chance to go through them in detail yet but thought I'd share them here in case they're useful to others (and so I can find them again in the future when I remember I haven't read them yet)

sty wrote:one of my mates on G+ posted these links when we were talking about FPGAs and hacking ciruits together.


http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2010/0 ... tchin.html

I haven't had chance to go through them in detail yet but thought I'd share them here in case they're useful to others (and so I can find them again in the future when I remember I haven't read them yet)

never tried the photoresist, but it's a pretty good lesson there.

additionally I'd recommend heating the ferric chloride.. warmer etchant etches faster (I have 2X trays, the larger outer has boiled water in it, the inner has the etchant).
I'd also comment that this guy is lucky to have a drill press small enough for the 0.8mm bit. I don't (they're pricey as hell) so do it by hand with a dremel-a-like.. thing to remember using this is that the 0.8mm bit is pretty damn thin and snaps easily.. the more length out of the chuck, the more chance of snapping, so I 'pre-snap' mine to be short as and only have a few mm sticking out of the chuck.

rocklander wrote:

sty wrote:one of my mates on G+ posted these links when we were talking about FPGAs and hacking ciruits together.


http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2010/0 ... tchin.html

I haven't had chance to go through them in detail yet but thought I'd share them here in case they're useful to others (and so I can find them again in the future when I remember I haven't read them yet)

never tried the photoresist, but it's a pretty good lesson there.

additionally I'd recommend heating the ferric chloride.. warmer etchant etches faster (I have 2X trays, the larger outer has boiled water in it, the inner has the etchant).
I'd also comment that this guy is lucky to have a drill press small enough for the 0.8mm bit. I don't (they're pricey as hell) so do it by hand with a dremel-a-like.. thing to remember using this is that the 0.8mm bit is pretty damn thin and snaps easily.. the more length out of the chuck, the more chance of snapping, so I 'pre-snap' mine to be short as and only have a few mm sticking out of the chuck.

I spent the two summers in 1984 and 1985 making PCBs by a very similar manner to these homebrew methods, when I wasn't writing code or designing electronic things like sheep drenchers, electric motors for new Kango Wolf angle grinders and something to do with Speak and Spell.

The first summer it was very homebrew using photo trays to etch boards in, still using photo resist board which was a doddle using an old UV sunlamp to expose them.

The second summer we had some decent gear and the two notable things were:

1) We had a bubble tank to do the etching, this heated the Ferric Chloride to speed things up, and bubbled air though it to speed things up as well.

2) We used a dremel to drill the 0.8mm holes, but we had a really nifty drill press that would hold the dremel. It would be well worth seeing if you could chase one of these down as I'm sure they weren't that expensive and were super useful

sty wrote:2) We used a dremel to drill the 0.8mm holes, but we had a really nifty drill press that would hold the dremel. It would be well worth seeing if you could chase one of these down as I'm sure they weren't that expensive and were super useful

that's what I thought... last time I looked the price was over $120. hard to justify.