Tube Choice / Brands etc.
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- Molly
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Tube Choice / Brands etc.
The following comes directly from the manual accompanying my TK. It was written by their designer, Mark Bartel. I thought it was interesting so have copied it FYI. Sorry for all the returns. Couldn't be arsed to take them out.
Not saying any of this is gospel or indisputable. I just thought it was interesting.
6V6 WARNING !
The following brands are NOT recommended, as we’ve experienced a high rate of redplating
and short circuit faults with these:
• Tung Sol 6V6GT
• EH 6V6GT manufactured after December 2015
We had been recommending EH brand 6V6s for years. These were great tubes, but
some time around December 2015, the manufacturer changed the design , and they
now appear to share the same construction as the Tung Sol 6V6. After the design
change, we noticed the same reliability problems as the Tung Sol 6V6, so we no longer
recommend using the EH 6V6 of current manufacture.
6V6 Tube Choices:
I prefer the TAD 6V6 for its warmth, smooth compression, and balanced top end.
The JJ brand 6V6 is another acceptable choice. The JJ 6V6 has a bigger, fatter sound
than the TAD, but is a bit less lively sounding, and has a more muted top end. It
sounds a bit more like a 6L6 than a 6V6.
15
12AX7 Tubes:
The Tung Sol 12AX7 is a great choice for the Imperial MK II. It has a nice balance of
detail and warmth
EH 12AX7s are very similar to Tung Sol 12AX7s – both are very quiet with very low
microphonics and are a bit on the bright side, with an extended top end. Tung Sols
seem a bit warmer than EHs.
The Svetlana 12AX7, a short-plate tube, has nearly the clarity of the 12AX7EH, and
slightly more bottom end, but is a bit congested in the midrange. Years ago, I had
selected this brand as the brand of choice for the Meteor/II amp, but later changed to a
combination of the 12AX7EH and the 12AX7LPS.
The EI 12AX7, a long-plate tube, is a very warm, huge sounding tube, with a very NOS
character. It’s the next best thing to NOS, and actually better than some NOS brands.
However, it is extremely microphonic, and can therefore be difficult to use.
Sovtek 12AX7LPS – this long-plate 12AX7 has a big, warm sound with nearly the depth
and NOS-like quality of the EI 12AX7, with the EI being a bit more balanced sounding,
and the Sovtek being a bit veiled on the top end. However, this long plate tube is
nearly as microphonic as the EI, and should not be used for the 1st gain stage.
Alternate Tube Choices You May Want to Try
Reducing Gain: If you find the preamp too gainy, and you find that you’re setting the
volume controls down quite low to get sufficient clean headroom, you may want to try
swapping in a 12AU7 in the V2 position. You can reduce the gain further by swapping
a 12AU7 into the V1 position as well.
Adding Sag / More Compression: If you’d like a little less output power, and a little
looser feel, you might try changing the rectifier tube to a 5Y3. My preference is an old
NOS RCA 5Y3 – these sound better than current production 5Y3s.
Tube Quality
Currently manufactured tubes are built in China, Russia, or the Czech Republic, and
are not built to the same quality standards as tubes manufactures by the U.S.
manufacturers in the “glory days” of tube manufacturing.
We musicians choose to use to vacuum tubes because of their tone, but we need to
accept that the tubes available to us these days can be imperfect devices, and are most
certainly the least reliable component in the entire amplifier.
It would seem that the obvious solution would be to use new-old-stock tubes that were
made back in the “glory days”, when tubes were properly made. However, I’ve lately
been finding that much of the available stocks of such “new old stock” tubes are either
gassy, noisy, or unreliable – I do believe that we’ve reached the bottom of the barrel of
NOS tubes.
Tube problems generally reveal themselves as a crackling noise which can occur
continuously, sporadically, in response to mechanical vibration, or in response to your
playing (e.g. a crackling or other type of noise which occurs only when you hit a note).
If you notice any noises, cracking, or any other odd behavior of your amplifier in this
period, note that it is most likely to be the result of a defective tube, and should be
debugged as such.
Not saying any of this is gospel or indisputable. I just thought it was interesting.
6V6 WARNING !
The following brands are NOT recommended, as we’ve experienced a high rate of redplating
and short circuit faults with these:
• Tung Sol 6V6GT
• EH 6V6GT manufactured after December 2015
We had been recommending EH brand 6V6s for years. These were great tubes, but
some time around December 2015, the manufacturer changed the design , and they
now appear to share the same construction as the Tung Sol 6V6. After the design
change, we noticed the same reliability problems as the Tung Sol 6V6, so we no longer
recommend using the EH 6V6 of current manufacture.
6V6 Tube Choices:
I prefer the TAD 6V6 for its warmth, smooth compression, and balanced top end.
The JJ brand 6V6 is another acceptable choice. The JJ 6V6 has a bigger, fatter sound
than the TAD, but is a bit less lively sounding, and has a more muted top end. It
sounds a bit more like a 6L6 than a 6V6.
15
12AX7 Tubes:
The Tung Sol 12AX7 is a great choice for the Imperial MK II. It has a nice balance of
detail and warmth
EH 12AX7s are very similar to Tung Sol 12AX7s – both are very quiet with very low
microphonics and are a bit on the bright side, with an extended top end. Tung Sols
seem a bit warmer than EHs.
The Svetlana 12AX7, a short-plate tube, has nearly the clarity of the 12AX7EH, and
slightly more bottom end, but is a bit congested in the midrange. Years ago, I had
selected this brand as the brand of choice for the Meteor/II amp, but later changed to a
combination of the 12AX7EH and the 12AX7LPS.
The EI 12AX7, a long-plate tube, is a very warm, huge sounding tube, with a very NOS
character. It’s the next best thing to NOS, and actually better than some NOS brands.
However, it is extremely microphonic, and can therefore be difficult to use.
Sovtek 12AX7LPS – this long-plate 12AX7 has a big, warm sound with nearly the depth
and NOS-like quality of the EI 12AX7, with the EI being a bit more balanced sounding,
and the Sovtek being a bit veiled on the top end. However, this long plate tube is
nearly as microphonic as the EI, and should not be used for the 1st gain stage.
Alternate Tube Choices You May Want to Try
Reducing Gain: If you find the preamp too gainy, and you find that you’re setting the
volume controls down quite low to get sufficient clean headroom, you may want to try
swapping in a 12AU7 in the V2 position. You can reduce the gain further by swapping
a 12AU7 into the V1 position as well.
Adding Sag / More Compression: If you’d like a little less output power, and a little
looser feel, you might try changing the rectifier tube to a 5Y3. My preference is an old
NOS RCA 5Y3 – these sound better than current production 5Y3s.
Tube Quality
Currently manufactured tubes are built in China, Russia, or the Czech Republic, and
are not built to the same quality standards as tubes manufactures by the U.S.
manufacturers in the “glory days” of tube manufacturing.
We musicians choose to use to vacuum tubes because of their tone, but we need to
accept that the tubes available to us these days can be imperfect devices, and are most
certainly the least reliable component in the entire amplifier.
It would seem that the obvious solution would be to use new-old-stock tubes that were
made back in the “glory days”, when tubes were properly made. However, I’ve lately
been finding that much of the available stocks of such “new old stock” tubes are either
gassy, noisy, or unreliable – I do believe that we’ve reached the bottom of the barrel of
NOS tubes.
Tube problems generally reveal themselves as a crackling noise which can occur
continuously, sporadically, in response to mechanical vibration, or in response to your
playing (e.g. a crackling or other type of noise which occurs only when you hit a note).
If you notice any noises, cracking, or any other odd behavior of your amplifier in this
period, note that it is most likely to be the result of a defective tube, and should be
debugged as such.
- WellyBlues
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Re: Tube Choice / Brands etc.
Interesting. Two points:
1. posted at 9.03am - teacher-only day, snowed in, or classroom running riot?
2. the first bit has 'December 2015' mentioned a couple of times re EHX tubes. Hasn't happened yet. 2014?
1. posted at 9.03am - teacher-only day, snowed in, or classroom running riot?
2. the first bit has 'December 2015' mentioned a couple of times re EHX tubes. Hasn't happened yet. 2014?
Slowy wrote: Ultimately though, guitars are like women. On paper there's not much difference but only a few can make you happy.
Ray Wylie Hubbard wrote: And the days that I keep my gratitude higher than my expectations Well, I have really good days
- jeremyb
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Re: Tube Choice / Brands etc.
I put a tung sol 12AX7 in V1 in my AC15 for a bit more sweetness, JJ's for the rest, sound pretty good to my ears!
Slowy wrote: That's the problem; everything rewarding is just such hard work. Regret takes much less effort.
- Molly
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Re: Tube Choice / Brands etc.
Free P1. Finally clocked-off about 11pm yesterday so having a well earned brew.WellyBlues wrote:Interesting. Two points:
1. posted at 9.03am - teacher-only day, snowed in, or classroom running riot?
2. the first bit has 'December 2015' mentioned a couple of times re EHX tubes. Hasn't happened yet. 2014?
- Bg
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Re: Tube Choice / Brands etc.
bit early isn't it?
So, is that low alcohol or no alcohol at all? mmmm, no alcohol, do you want to try it? Noooooooooo.
- dylan
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Re: Tube Choice / Brands etc.
interesting stuff thx molly. best source for NOS tubes i know is Paul from vintageaudiovalves. (not affiliated, just a fan)
Mids so haunting that demons took over my living room and now my guitar glows!
- MogwaiBoy
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Re: Tube Choice / Brands etc.
Thanks Molly, interesting about Tung Sol 6V6s - I was thinking about trying them in my Custom Deluxe Reverb, but maybe I should look into TAD. Reliability is probably more important to me than tone even. I always thought Tube Amp Doctor valves were just selected rebrands, ie: "Groovetubes", not an actual manufacturer - but I may be wrong?
Saying that JJ 6V6s are closer to 6L6s seems to be common. Why is that? I heard they can handle higher plate voltages - Greenstone even warn against not using them in the Bellbirds. Still I'm a bit sceptical of the 6L6 claim.
I'm a big fan of Tung Sol 12AX7s over JJs.
Saying that JJ 6V6s are closer to 6L6s seems to be common. Why is that? I heard they can handle higher plate voltages - Greenstone even warn against not using them in the Bellbirds. Still I'm a bit sceptical of the 6L6 claim.
I'm a big fan of Tung Sol 12AX7s over JJs.
Last edited by MogwaiBoy on Wed Aug 12, 2015 9:56 am, edited 2 times in total.
- godgrinder
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Re: Tube Choice / Brands etc.
You were not wrong, both companies mostly sell rebranded Shuguang's.MogwaiBoy wrote:I always thought Tube Amp Doctor valves were just selected rebrands, ie: "Groovetubes", not an actual manufacturer - but I may be wrong?
Amps:
Soldano SLO100 x2 | Wizard MC1 & MC2 | Diezel Herbert
Fryette Pittbull CL | Marshall 2203KK | Krank Rev 50 | Mesa Mark 2A
Rack stuff:
VHT/Fryette GP3, GP/DI & 2/90/2 | Peters FSM/Chimera
Verellen Meatsmoke | Synergy SYN1 | Mesa Studio
Soldano SLO100 x2 | Wizard MC1 & MC2 | Diezel Herbert
Fryette Pittbull CL | Marshall 2203KK | Krank Rev 50 | Mesa Mark 2A
Rack stuff:
VHT/Fryette GP3, GP/DI & 2/90/2 | Peters FSM/Chimera
Verellen Meatsmoke | Synergy SYN1 | Mesa Studio
- sizzlingbadger
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Re: Tube Choice / Brands etc.
http://www.guitaramplifierblueprinting.com/Primers.html
There are 3 main factories where modern tubes are made, China (Shuguang), Russia (Saratov) and Czechoslovakia
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/manufacture/0609/
New Sensor Corp (USA) (aka Sovtek) own the names of many of the old tube makers like Mullard, Svetlana, EHX, and Tung Sol and their tubes are usually from Russia but they have started using tubes from the Chinese factory now (often labelled as Sino).
JJ are made in Czechoslovakia. They are their own company/brand (ex Tesla)
There are 3 main factories where modern tubes are made, China (Shuguang), Russia (Saratov) and Czechoslovakia
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/manufacture/0609/
New Sensor Corp (USA) (aka Sovtek) own the names of many of the old tube makers like Mullard, Svetlana, EHX, and Tung Sol and their tubes are usually from Russia but they have started using tubes from the Chinese factory now (often labelled as Sino).
JJ are made in Czechoslovakia. They are their own company/brand (ex Tesla)
Last edited by sizzlingbadger on Wed Aug 12, 2015 10:16 am, edited 4 times in total.
Tube amp and guitar tones straight from 1958… amazing how believable the sounds were back then, even without the modellers...
- MogwaiBoy
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Re: Tube Choice / Brands etc.
And TAD run them through tests and select the better performers so you know you're getting a premium tube... is that how it works? Seems legit. I guess it takes some of the risk out of buying garden variety Shugangs.godgrinder wrote:You were not wrong, both companies mostly sell rebranded Shuguang's.MogwaiBoy wrote:I always thought Tube Amp Doctor valves were just selected rebrands, ie: "Groovetubes", not an actual manufacturer - but I may be wrong?
- godgrinder
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Re: Tube Choice / Brands etc.
Yep, but you pay a lot of premium for that though. For example a pair of EL34M costs about NZ$20 from Shuguang, a selected pair from GT would be US$60. At that price I'd rather just buy brands that are known to be a bit more reliable overall.MogwaiBoy wrote:And TAD run them through tests and select the better performers so you know you're getting a premium tube... is that how it works? Seems legit. I guess it takes some of the risk out of buying garden variety Shugangs.
Amps:
Soldano SLO100 x2 | Wizard MC1 & MC2 | Diezel Herbert
Fryette Pittbull CL | Marshall 2203KK | Krank Rev 50 | Mesa Mark 2A
Rack stuff:
VHT/Fryette GP3, GP/DI & 2/90/2 | Peters FSM/Chimera
Verellen Meatsmoke | Synergy SYN1 | Mesa Studio
Soldano SLO100 x2 | Wizard MC1 & MC2 | Diezel Herbert
Fryette Pittbull CL | Marshall 2203KK | Krank Rev 50 | Mesa Mark 2A
Rack stuff:
VHT/Fryette GP3, GP/DI & 2/90/2 | Peters FSM/Chimera
Verellen Meatsmoke | Synergy SYN1 | Mesa Studio
- jeremyb
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Re: Tube Choice / Brands etc.
I think the tung sol 12ax7 I have said it was made in slovenia or somesuch!
Slowy wrote: That's the problem; everything rewarding is just such hard work. Regret takes much less effort.
- Conway
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Re: Tube Choice / Brands etc.
I with the Starship Enterprise toasters myself.MogwaiBoy wrote:Hey man - we're talking about tube amps here, not Starship Enterprise toasters.
You'd think there would be a boutique US tube maker, instead of relying on the Chinese and Russians...