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Conway wrote:

MogwaiBoy wrote:Hey man - we're talking about tube amps here, not Starship Enterprise toasters.

I with the Starship Enterprise toasters myself.

You'd think there would be a boutique US tube maker, instead of relying on the Chinese and Russians...

You'd wonder if the old tooling and machines were floating around somewhere, an abandoned factory or something, so the yanks could get back into it

I believe just such a thing did happen.. with RCA I think.

My guess is the upfront costs/size of getting a factory staffed and up and running would far outweigh the gains of selling genuine USA-made tubes to guitarist snobs and high-end audio enthusiasts with their diamond feet turntables and endless "expansive soundstage" quest via Phil Collins records on repeat. Listen to the lower hertz of those Tom-toms, man, LISTEN!

I've been a big Genesis fan ever since the release of their 1980 album, Duke. Before that, I really didn't understand any of their work. Too artsy, too intellectual. It was on Duke where Phil Collins' presence became more apparent. I think Invisible Touch was the group's undisputed masterpiece. It's an epic meditation on intangibility. At the same time, it deepens and enriches the meaning of the preceding three albums.

jeremyb wrote:I've been a big Genesis fan ever since the release of their 1980 album, Duke. Before that, I really didn't understand any of their work. Too artsy, too intellectual. It was on Duke where Phil Collins' presence became more apparent. I think Invisible Touch was the group's undisputed masterpiece. It's an epic meditation on intangibility. At the same time, it deepens and enriches the meaning of the preceding three albums.

OK Patrick.

Hahahahaha I love your sense of humour, JB : )

I wasn't knocking Mr Collins, just the audiokarma gurus when they use certain songs (Sussudio) to test "the soundstage" of one tube vs another. But I know from an outside perspective many of the things we as guitarists obsess over look equally daft.

I'm surprised there isn't the USA boutique tube option.

it really is bizzare when magazines like hi-fi world test uber botique valve stereos with current girl band pop hits that have no dynamic range or natural soundstage. listening to over limited "everything right up in your face" music on a posh stereo is kinda pointless imo.

but i think they do it to test if the gear can make even awfull music tolerable to listen to.

**edit** kemper should create an amp model of a high end valve stereo.

**edit again - jeremyb i mostly aggree with you on genesis (but not being sarcastic). the first genesis song i liked was illegal alien. mid 80s genesis wasnt the beatles, but imo way better than peter gabriel era. writing and singing pop hits that make you (temporarily) the worlds biggest band is not a small achievement. nothing against peter gabriel, i like his solo music heaps - way more that his genesis stuff. once genesis moved a genius song writer like phill collins to the frontman position the band stopped sucking.

that "take a look at me now" song is epic. ok its phill solo but he offered it to genesis first, and rutherford rejected it. duh!