single vs multi-tracked guitars....demo
Moderator: Capt. Black
- Kloppsta
- Vintage Post Junkie
- Posts: 2489
- meble-kuchenne.warszawa.pl
- Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 1:09 pm
- Location: Auckland
- Has liked: 84 times
- Been liked: 93 times
single vs multi-tracked guitars....demo
So I was reading up on general guitar tracking / recording techniques and kept coming across a reoccurring theme. It seems all the peeps in the “know” swear by the technique of recording multiple “low gain” tracks for rhythm guitars, which somehow in turn, combine to create a bigger, and “gainier” sounding tone.
I realise of course that multi-tracking guitars has been an employed studio technique for many many years and I dare say ALL modern (rock + metal especially) rhythm guitar tracks are layered but I didn’t really understand why the individual tracks “should” be recorded at a lower gain and I also wasn’t sure when enough is enough when it comes to multi-tracking.
The general consensus for “big” sounding dirty rhythm guitars is Quad Tracking. Ok, so 4 tracks recorded individually is somehow going to sound WAY better than a single track? I wasn’t sold…I figured, yeah, it would be “louder” wouldn’t it? But how could 4 “low gain” tracks turn into a “high gain” tone?
Sooooo…..experiment time! I busted out one of the 6-string flock, tuned her up, plugged her into my interface and opened up Reaper.
**warning** - this wasn’t an experiment on how tight I could record a track so please excuse the sloppiness. I just did 1 take of each track, regardless of flubs.
I dialled up a very basic tone in Guitar Rig 5, not using anything fancy. Just a boost (OD808) into a Boogie (Dual Rec model) into a 4x12 (V30) cab model. I ran the gain VERY low (it will still sound very gainy to most folks, but it is far less gain than I would normally dial up if playing live)
Opened a new track and started jamming on the first thing that my fingers felt like playing, a basic little riff, but suits the purpose of this experiment….don’t judge me! Haha
Anyway, so below is the link to the single recorded track. The only post processing is a basic EQ with a cut of everything below 30Hz, a 2db boost at 220Hz and a 1db boost at 1K.
**FOR BEST EFFECT, LISTEN ON DECENT SPEAKERS**
https://soundcloud.com/craig-klopper/riff-single
Pretty MEH sounding!!!
Then I recorded 3 more tracks. All the same amp. I panned the first 2 tracks hard left and right and the second 2 tracks 75% L and R respectively. I fiddled around a little bit with the treble, presence and mids on the guitar sound of the 3rd and 4th track, just to get a slightly crispier sound for those two tracks, but I didn’t touch the gain.
When I clicked play and all 4 tracks started playing together I was blown away! Sounded SO much bigger, way more gainier and just made the single tracked guitar sound anaemic!
https://soundcloud.com/craig-klopper/riff-quad
So yeah, tl;dr…..moral of the story……multi tracked guitars sound way better! I think the main reason you run the gain low on each track is that its cumulative when they are all played together and the small differences between each track with timing, helps create a “smear” effect and you get that “wall of sound” thing going on. If each track was recorded at higher gain levels it would be easy to turn the mix into mush and lose all definition.
Cool to put something basic like this into practice and hear the results so clearly!
I realise of course that multi-tracking guitars has been an employed studio technique for many many years and I dare say ALL modern (rock + metal especially) rhythm guitar tracks are layered but I didn’t really understand why the individual tracks “should” be recorded at a lower gain and I also wasn’t sure when enough is enough when it comes to multi-tracking.
The general consensus for “big” sounding dirty rhythm guitars is Quad Tracking. Ok, so 4 tracks recorded individually is somehow going to sound WAY better than a single track? I wasn’t sold…I figured, yeah, it would be “louder” wouldn’t it? But how could 4 “low gain” tracks turn into a “high gain” tone?
Sooooo…..experiment time! I busted out one of the 6-string flock, tuned her up, plugged her into my interface and opened up Reaper.
**warning** - this wasn’t an experiment on how tight I could record a track so please excuse the sloppiness. I just did 1 take of each track, regardless of flubs.
I dialled up a very basic tone in Guitar Rig 5, not using anything fancy. Just a boost (OD808) into a Boogie (Dual Rec model) into a 4x12 (V30) cab model. I ran the gain VERY low (it will still sound very gainy to most folks, but it is far less gain than I would normally dial up if playing live)
Opened a new track and started jamming on the first thing that my fingers felt like playing, a basic little riff, but suits the purpose of this experiment….don’t judge me! Haha
Anyway, so below is the link to the single recorded track. The only post processing is a basic EQ with a cut of everything below 30Hz, a 2db boost at 220Hz and a 1db boost at 1K.
**FOR BEST EFFECT, LISTEN ON DECENT SPEAKERS**
https://soundcloud.com/craig-klopper/riff-single
Pretty MEH sounding!!!
Then I recorded 3 more tracks. All the same amp. I panned the first 2 tracks hard left and right and the second 2 tracks 75% L and R respectively. I fiddled around a little bit with the treble, presence and mids on the guitar sound of the 3rd and 4th track, just to get a slightly crispier sound for those two tracks, but I didn’t touch the gain.
When I clicked play and all 4 tracks started playing together I was blown away! Sounded SO much bigger, way more gainier and just made the single tracked guitar sound anaemic!
https://soundcloud.com/craig-klopper/riff-quad
So yeah, tl;dr…..moral of the story……multi tracked guitars sound way better! I think the main reason you run the gain low on each track is that its cumulative when they are all played together and the small differences between each track with timing, helps create a “smear” effect and you get that “wall of sound” thing going on. If each track was recorded at higher gain levels it would be easy to turn the mix into mush and lose all definition.
Cool to put something basic like this into practice and hear the results so clearly!
Last edited by Kloppsta on Tue Mar 04, 2014 7:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Little by little, by hook or by crook
-
- Resident Gear Whore
- Posts: 10046
- Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2005 12:26 pm
- Has liked: 97 times
- Been liked: 424 times
Re: single vs multi-tracked guitars....demo
Wow. That IS cool. Thanks for that. Listening to the 4x track, you'd never think that it came from that first guitar tone.
Just a small town girl living in a lonely world
- Scooter13
- Vintage Post Junkie
- Posts: 2150
- Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2008 6:24 pm
- Location: Wellington
- Has liked: 40 times
- Been liked: 69 times
Re: single vs multi-tracked guitars....demo
https://soundcloud.com/craig-klopper
Your links didn't work for me. Did you listen to double tracked vs quad? I usually at least do a double track but use more gain than your single.
Your links didn't work for me. Did you listen to double tracked vs quad? I usually at least do a double track but use more gain than your single.
Last edited by Scooter13 on Tue Mar 04, 2014 7:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- Kloppsta
- Vintage Post Junkie
- Posts: 2489
- Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 1:09 pm
- Location: Auckland
- Has liked: 84 times
- Been liked: 93 times
Re: single vs multi-tracked guitars....demo
yeah, when i hit play the first time with all 4 tracks together i thought my ears were playing tricks on me! yet somehow, those 4 individual "low gain" tracks combine to make something pretty "heavy" sounding.slash-ed wrote:Wow. That IS cool. Thanks for that. Listening to the 4x track, you'd never think that it came from that first guitar tone.
Little by little, by hook or by crook
- Kloppsta
- Vintage Post Junkie
- Posts: 2489
- Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 1:09 pm
- Location: Auckland
- Has liked: 84 times
- Been liked: 93 times
Re: single vs multi-tracked guitars....demo
oh weird?! they are the direct links that soundcloud give when i click "share", and they are set to public, plus they work for me, so not sure whats going on sorry! are you able to get to them by going to my main "profile" page?Scooter13 wrote:https://soundcloud.com/craig-klopper
Your links didn't work. Did you listen to double tracked vs quad? I usually at least do a double track but use more gain than your single.
tbh i didnt even bother trying a double track. i just went straight to quad as that's what "most" of the forums i was reading said to do. will try a double track and maybe bump the gain up a tad to make up for the lost extra 2 tracks
Little by little, by hook or by crook
- Scooter13
- Vintage Post Junkie
- Posts: 2150
- Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2008 6:24 pm
- Location: Wellington
- Has liked: 40 times
- Been liked: 69 times
Re: single vs multi-tracked guitars....demo
Yeah, the link I posted worked. Soundcloud just gave me some error when i clicked yours...
Sounded great though ay.
Sounded great though ay.
- willow13
- Vintage Post Junkie
- Posts: 14558
- Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2004 2:36 pm
- Location: If less is more then just think how much more more is
- Has liked: 372 times
- Been liked: 634 times
Re: single vs multi-tracked guitars....demo
I remember doing multi tracks after hearing zakk did four tracks for no more tears ..... I thought if it sounds that big with for what would 8 sound like?? so I did 4 doubled tracks for each channel ....... it sounded awful and actually started to get really thin sounding. Now I do one track with artificial doubling per channel and then a centre track of a second guitar (so 5 tracks all up but you only physically play 3)
If Less is More Then Just Think How Much More More would be
- druz15
- Vintage Post Junkie
- Posts: 3930
- Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 9:05 pm
- Location: Melbourne
- Has liked: 9 times
- Been liked: 56 times
Re: single vs multi-tracked guitars....demo
looks like mono to me
but also I completely agree. Love triple/quad tracking riffs/rhythm parts, makes em sound huge
but also I completely agree. Love triple/quad tracking riffs/rhythm parts, makes em sound huge
BG wrote:I don't care if you worship god or you worship goats cocks
Re: single vs multi-tracked guitars....demo
Check your output and/or upload settings, the quad file is mono.Kloppsta wrote:Then I recorded 3 more tracks. All the same amp. I panned the first 2 tracks hard left and right and the second 2 tracks 75% L and R respectively.
Re: single vs multi-tracked guitars....demo
I think that someone is trying to kill me,infecting my body,destroying my mind.
- Kloppsta
- Vintage Post Junkie
- Posts: 2489
- Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 1:09 pm
- Location: Auckland
- Has liked: 84 times
- Been liked: 93 times
Re: single vs multi-tracked guitars....demo
zedhed71 wrote:I think that someone is trying to kill me,infecting my body,destroying my mind.
Little by little, by hook or by crook
Re: single vs multi-tracked guitars....demo
Then why pan them?Kloppsta wrote:Yip, meant to be mono. Its a mono source. The 4 tracks were rendered to mono.
- Kloppsta
- Vintage Post Junkie
- Posts: 2489
- Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 1:09 pm
- Location: Auckland
- Has liked: 84 times
- Been liked: 93 times
Re: single vs multi-tracked guitars....demo
I figured since the tracks were recorded mono that even if I rendered / summed the 4 tracks into a single mono track, the panning that I had done would be barely detecable from a “stereo” spread point of view.Timi wrote:Then why pan them?Kloppsta wrote:Yip, meant to be mono. Its a mono source. The 4 tracks were rendered to mono.
I.e. Since the source tracks were mono and tone of each track was near identical, the panning served to create a “spread” that would be captured in the mono track after rendering. Had each guitar track been recorded with a very different tone I would imagine the panning would have been much more obvious. I probably have my wires severly crossed….I am a NOOB. Put another way, when I played the original file in Reaper (with the 4 individual tracks all panned) and compared it to the renderd mono WAV file, from where I was sitting I could not hear a difference in the overall tone. I figured the test was to show the difference between 1 “low gain” guitar track compared to 4 “low gain” guitar tracks recorded individually and played together. The result, 1 BIG sounding guitar track that seems to have MUCH more “gain” in the tone than what each indivual track was recorded with, showing the cumulitive gain effect if that makes ANY sense whatsoever! haha
Little by little, by hook or by crook
- Capt. Black
- Vintage Post Junkie
- Posts: 6559
- Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2005 12:39 am
- Location: Valles Marineris
- Has liked: 171 times
- Been liked: 255 times
single vs multi-tracked guitars....demo
The test is a great example of what you're trying to demonstrate!
Don't worry about panning if it is gonna end up mono.
Having said that, later in the process/progress, it is a good idea to listen to your stereo panned mix in mono to make sure important parts of the mix are not being cancelled out. Or that some levels aren't way out of whack.
Good work otherwise.
Don't worry about panning if it is gonna end up mono.
Having said that, later in the process/progress, it is a good idea to listen to your stereo panned mix in mono to make sure important parts of the mix are not being cancelled out. Or that some levels aren't way out of whack.
Good work otherwise.