Mixing & Panning

[Jay]

Been searching through the Studio topic but could not find much on panning tracks.

I am mixing a simple song in mono atm with the following tracks:

Drums
Bongos
Bass
Vocals
Double tracked vocals (chorus only)
Rhythm guitar
Solo guitar
Piano (potentially if recording works out well)

Q: Do I pan any tracks? Which ones and why?

Thanks in advance to you mixing gurus

[jeremyb]

Hardly a guru but my rule of thumb is bass, bass drum and snare down the middle, same with vocals, pan the other drums lightly to either side, guitars and piano to either side too, but double tracked rather than copy / paste to give it some movement

[olegmcnoleg]

Been searching through the Studio topic but could not find much on panning tracks.

I am mixing a simple song in mono atm with the following tracks:

Drums
Bongos
Bass
Vocals
Double tracked vocals (chorus only)
Rhythm guitar
Solo guitar
Piano (potentially if recording works out well)

Q: Do I pan any tracks? Which ones and why?

Thanks in advance to you mixing gurus

The best advice I ever had for mixing is this:

keep it in mono ... work with the eq so that you can hear all the instruments separately & clearly. Pay particular attention to separating the bass & kick drum and anywhere in the sound spectrum where you have a lot of different instruments competing for attention. I've read that 80% of the effort in getting a good mix goes here. I think it is true, though there are those on here who do this for a living, so their advice will be better than mine.

One you are sure that you can already separate out those instruments then it is time to think about stereo imaging. There are many ways you can do that: panning, chorus, panned delays/doublers, double tracking, effects that 'widen' the signal...it is not all about panning.

Experiment with different approaches. General wisdom is to keep the Bass drum & Bass close to the centre, but you can allow the toms to each pan to a different angle, same with cymbals. I usually keep the snare in the middle also. (unless it pairs well rhythmically with another instrument--in which case they can both be panned--but this is very rare in my experience)

I often aim to have two parts that are close to each other rhythmically, but ideally not identical. Two instruments playing the same chords and a similar rhythm... I might hard pan these, one left, one right. If the rhythms are not similar, this will make the sound disconnected & unpleasant, but if they are close, it can add considerable depth.

Other instruments I will pan more gently, but I use some of the other tricks above (with moderation) to fatten the sound. Pad settings on synths can be great for getting a wide sound, but they need to leave space for the vocal.

I'm still learning, so take all this with a pinch of salt.

Good luck

[bender]

Visualise the band on a stage, and pan accordingly. The exception is as the others have said- low frequency instruments (bass and kick) in the middle - because it’s harder to hear directionality in low frequencies.

Oleg’s suggestion of getting everything EQ’d and sitting nicely in mono is a good one.

One thing that can be fun to play around with is hard LCR panning- ie only panning things hard centre, hard left or hard right, and nothing in between. That’s how a lot of early stereo recordings were mixed, and it can be a really fun sound.

Panning the double-tracked BVs hard left and hard right, and the guitar to one side and the piano to the other is a good way of balancing too.

[crowbgood1]

[griff]

Good thread. Following.

[Jay]

Good thread. Following.

I think the wise men have already spoken

[Jay]

Thanks chaps, will try your suggestions. Video was cool too.

[Delayman]

I learned a good trick from a clip by a guy who gets a huge sound for his solo acoustic stuff.

He records his guitar with two different mikes, and pans them left and right, but then he feeds each one to a reverb that is panned to the opposite side. Not sure whether it’s as noticeable in a band mix, but with a simpler track, your brain really notices and that makes the sound way bigger.

[olegmcnoleg]

I learned a good trick from a clip by a guy who gets a huge sound for his solo acoustic stuff.

He records his guitar with two different mikes, and pans them left and right, but then he feeds each one to a reverb that is panned to the opposite side. Not sure whether it’s as noticeable in a band mix, but with a simpler track, your brain really notices and that makes the sound way bigger.

Yes, I've seen that, and it can work well for voices too...even with a solo voice that is panned (say) left (though not too much) and the verb is panned right. I agree, that you would need lots of space in the mix for this to work well. I'll try it next time I record solo guitar--it's a good tip I think.

But, using two mics on a single instrument is a dark art in itself. Were they mounted at the same point? Or a wide field? Or neck & lower bout? Or Mid/Side? (M/S) I wish I knew more about this stuff

[Delayman]

I learned a good trick from a clip by a guy who gets a huge sound for his solo acoustic stuff.

He records his guitar with two different mikes, and pans them left and right, but then he feeds each one to a reverb that is panned to the opposite side. Not sure whether it’s as noticeable in a band mix, but with a simpler track, your brain really notices and that makes the sound way bigger.

Yes, I've seen that, and it can work well for voices too...even with a solo voice that is panned (say) left (though not too much) and the verb is panned right. I agree, that you would need lots of space in the mix for this to work well. I'll try it next time I record solo guitar--it's a good tip I think.

But, using two mics on a single instrument is a dark art in itself. Were they mounted at the same point? Or a wide field? Or neck & lower bout? Or Mid/Side? (M/S) I wish I knew more about this stuff

I found it: https://youtu.be/ww-cH29IGeM

[jeremyb]

I learned a good trick from a clip by a guy who gets a huge sound for his solo acoustic stuff.

He records his guitar with two different mikes, and pans them left and right, but then he feeds each one to a reverb that is panned to the opposite side. Not sure whether it’s as noticeable in a band mix, but with a simpler track, your brain really notices and that makes the sound way bigger.

Yes, I've seen that, and it can work well for voices too...even with a solo voice that is panned (say) left (though not too much) and the verb is panned right. I agree, that you would need lots of space in the mix for this to work well. I'll try it next time I record solo guitar--it's a good tip I think.

But, using two mics on a single instrument is a dark art in itself. Were they mounted at the same point? Or a wide field? Or neck & lower bout? Or Mid/Side? (M/S) I wish I knew more about this stuff

I found it: https://youtu.be/ww-cH29IGeM

Thats really brilliant, thanks!

[NippleWrestler]

This has really helped my mixes, especially the gainier ones where there tends to be a buildup of mud in the lower mids (100hz-500hz).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6MOAIXIZ5w

[jeremyb]

Maybe ask this guy for some tips, he's known as "The Equalizer".

[Lawrence]

Been searching through the Studio topic but could not find much on panning tracks.

I am mixing a simple song in mono atm with the following tracks:

Drums
Bongos
Bass
Vocals
Double tracked vocals (chorus only)
Rhythm guitar
Solo guitar
Piano (potentially if recording works out well)

Q: Do I pan any tracks? Which ones and why?

Thanks in advance to you mixing gurus

The best advice I ever had for mixing is this:

keep it in mono ... work with the eq so that you can hear all the instruments separately & clearly. Pay particular attention to separating the bass & kick drum and anywhere in the sound spectrum where you have a lot of different instruments competing for attention. I've read that 80% of the effort in getting a good mix goes here. I think it is true, though there are those on here who do this for a living, so their advice will be better than mine.

One you are sure that you can already separate out those instruments then it is time to think about stereo imaging. There are many ways you can do that: panning, chorus, panned delays/doublers, double tracking, effects that 'widen' the signal...it is not all about panning.

Experiment with different approaches. General wisdom is to keep the Bass drum & Bass close to the centre, but you can allow the toms to each pan to a different angle, same with cymbals. I usually keep the snare in the middle also. (unless it pairs well rhythmically with another instrument--in which case they can both be panned--but this is very rare in my experience)

I often aim to have two parts that are close to each other rhythmically, but ideally not identical. Two instruments playing the same chords and a similar rhythm... I might hard pan these, one left, one right. If the rhythms are not similar, this will make the sound disconnected & unpleasant, but if they are close, it can add considerable depth.

Other instruments I will pan more gently, but I use some of the other tricks above (with moderation) to fatten the sound. Pad settings on synths can be great for getting a wide sound, but they need to leave space for the vocal.

I'm still learning, so take all this with a pinch of salt.

Good luck

that's very good advice right there.

Id add a couple of other points:

Before you start EQing (in mono) work on your balance. Don't try to fix balance issues with EQ, Don't assume that any instrument needs to be EQ'd to any particular sound until you can get the context. I see too many people spend ages EQing drum tracks in solo when they have not yet listened to the song balanced.(Since I don't know how experienced you are - Balance will change verse/chorus/ or line/line...even word/word sometimes). Assuming you are "In the Box" and mixing by mouse, be prepared to spend a little time getting these balance moves right.


When doing your balance and EQ, don't just assume that panning to the middle is mono. If possible work with only 1 monitor on at first. its the cleanest and truest way to hear mono.

very early on ask yourself if this is a vocal driven song or a groove driven song. If its a vocal driven song, don't be afraid to start your balancing with just the vocals and BVs switched on. While still in mono and without eq, see if you can get the vocal, BVs and their associated ambience (reverbs , delays) to sound GREAT on their own. Then start adding the other elements...Id probably start with bass & Kick but that depends on the song.

Try to find a few references tracks from big budget recordings and use them to prepare your ears. Im not saying copy the other tracks, and nor do they have to be identical styles. Its easy to get so far into your mix you forget what other mixers sound like. Take a break every hour or so and listen to some music.

Finally
Listen on as many sources and in as many environments as you can....
AS always - there are no rules! Have FUN!