Can a different cab affect the gain?
Moderators: Slowy, Capt. Black
- Shimmer
- Ashton
- Posts: 266
- meble-kuchenne.warszawa.pl
- Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:47 am
- Location: Lincoln
- Has liked: 304 times
- Been liked: 92 times
Can a different cab affect the gain?
The little 9v Ruby Amp I built recently sounds nice raspy with no headroom through the little Sony stereo speaker I hooked it up to. (As expected).
Plugged into my Laney 2x12 however, the gain goes from clean to 'overdrive' quite well. But when plugged into a Vox BC108, the gain is almost non-existent! Is it common for a cab to have such a big influence. (Admittedly it's a 'toy' amp, but still). Maybe something to do with the speaker sensitivity? (In terms of ohms, both the Laney and Vox are 8ohm. Sony speaker is 6ohm/25W)
Plugged into my Laney 2x12 however, the gain goes from clean to 'overdrive' quite well. But when plugged into a Vox BC108, the gain is almost non-existent! Is it common for a cab to have such a big influence. (Admittedly it's a 'toy' amp, but still). Maybe something to do with the speaker sensitivity? (In terms of ohms, both the Laney and Vox are 8ohm. Sony speaker is 6ohm/25W)
I want all the pedals!
- Molly
- Vintage Post Junkie
- Posts: 25011
- Joined: Sat Dec 21, 2013 12:17 pm
- Has liked: 2503 times
- Been liked: 2821 times
Re: Can a different cab affect the gain?
I wouldn't have thought so other than if one cab is less efficient than another it might allow more volume.
- Bg
- Site Admin
- Posts: 43419
- Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2003 12:13 am
- Location: Auckland
- Has liked: 2276 times
- Been liked: 3991 times
Re: Can a different cab affect the gain?
Not the cab per se, I imagine the speakers may react differently though.
So, is that low alcohol or no alcohol at all? mmmm, no alcohol, do you want to try it? Noooooooooo.
- robthemac
- Vintage Post Junkie
- Posts: 8826
- Joined: Sun Apr 28, 2019 3:47 pm
- Has liked: 1124 times
- Been liked: 1454 times
Re: Can a different cab affect the gain?
Agree with both of above. A less efficient speaker will result in more gain at lower volumes. If you're driving the speaker hard enough that the speaker itself is distorting, you'll also get a fuzzy/overdrive sound. It'd have to be a pretty juicy 9V amp to get speaker distortion from a Laney 2x12 though....
- Shimmer
- Ashton
- Posts: 266
- Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:47 am
- Location: Lincoln
- Has liked: 304 times
- Been liked: 92 times
Re: Can a different cab affect the gain?
Thanks all. That makes sense. Definitely more gain at lower volumes for the little Sony speaker.! I guess the surprise to me was how much 'cleaner' the Vox was compared to the laney. (Neither of which are high end speaker-cabs though!).robthemac wrote: ↑Mon Apr 11, 2022 9:24 am Agree with both of above. A less efficient speaker will result in more gain at lower volumes. If you're driving the speaker hard enough that the speaker itself is distorting, you'll also get a fuzzy/overdrive sound. It'd have to be a pretty juicy 9V amp to get speaker distortion from a Laney 2x12 though....
I want all the pedals!
- sizzlingbadger
- Vintage Post Junkie
- Posts: 8324
- Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2011 7:12 am
- Location: Wire Wrapper
- Has liked: 1230 times
- Been liked: 1416 times
Re: Can a different cab affect the gain?
Cab impedances? If the output stage of the Ruby is sensitive to load it may clip at different impedances.
"Revolt Against the Solid State"
- Miza
- Vintage Post Junkie
- Posts: 2320
- Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2007 1:07 pm
- Location: Hamilton
- Has liked: 775 times
- Been liked: 260 times
Re: Can a different cab affect the gain?
The cab will affect the tone a lot. Think closed back Marshall 4x12 vs open back Fender combo.
Sometimes the tone can change how our ears percieve gain, especially when you introduce more mids.
But yes, a small inefficient speaker will distort for sure!
Sometimes the tone can change how our ears percieve gain, especially when you introduce more mids.
But yes, a small inefficient speaker will distort for sure!
Nothing to see here.
-
- Squier
- Posts: 358
- Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2020 6:59 pm
- Has liked: 67 times
- Been liked: 71 times
Re: Can a different cab affect the gain?
As other have said, more efficient (high sensitivity) speakers give more clean headroom. So if you want a cleaner sound at a given volume, go for a high efficiency/sensitivity speakers. If you want more dirt, go low.
- MikeC
- Vintage Post Junkie
- Posts: 3023
- Joined: Fri Sep 12, 2003 5:43 pm
- Location: Red Beach, Auckland
- Has liked: 1359 times
- Been liked: 906 times
Re: Can a different cab affect the gain?
Tech alert... "gain" occurs with active components such as valves, transistors, FETs etc. Pickups don't have gain, speakers don't have gain. So assuming the same impedance speaker load (be it a 6", 8 ohm Sony speaker in a box or a 412 8-ohm Marshall cab), with the same guitar, then the amp will begin distorting at exactly the same place (on the volume knob) and in exactly the same way. The number of speakers, the speaker's size, enclosure type & wattage rating will effect the way it sounds to your ear. And besides, everything sounds better through a Marshall 412
Whakanuia o mea kei a koe
-
- Ashton
- Posts: 184
- Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2022 8:37 pm
- Has liked: 31 times
- Been liked: 56 times
Re: Can a different cab affect the gain?
All technically correct. But then sometimes when someone says "gain", they are really talking about headroom issues and components being driven into distortion. Which can absolutely happen with a speaker.MikeC wrote: ↑Mon Apr 11, 2022 8:47 pm Tech alert... "gain" occurs with active components such as valves, transistors, FETs etc. Pickups don't have gain, speakers don't have gain. So assuming the same impedance speaker load (be it a 6", 8 ohm Sony speaker in a box or a 412 8-ohm Marshall cab), with the same guitar, then the amp will begin distorting at exactly the same place (on the volume knob) and in exactly the same way. The number of speakers, the speaker's size, enclosure type & wattage rating will effect the way it sounds to your ear. And besides, everything sounds better through a Marshall 412
- MikeC
- Vintage Post Junkie
- Posts: 3023
- Joined: Fri Sep 12, 2003 5:43 pm
- Location: Red Beach, Auckland
- Has liked: 1359 times
- Been liked: 906 times
Re: Can a different cab affect the gain?
I'm a techy type - can't help it. "Can a different cab affect the gain"? No. Can a different cab effect the reproduced sound, yes.
Whakanuia o mea kei a koe
-
- Ashton
- Posts: 184
- Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2022 8:37 pm
- Has liked: 31 times
- Been liked: 56 times
Re: Can a different cab affect the gain?
Absolutely fair enough. Dan Worrall on YouTube says it best here: https://youtu.be/mytc7i0jm34?t=172
And if you like that, check out his "I won the loudness wars" video.
- Cdog
- Vintage Post Junkie
- Posts: 4399
- Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2007 3:01 pm
- Location: Christchurch
- Has liked: 3557 times
- Been liked: 728 times
Re: Can a different cab affect the gain?
Wot they said, also I have a couple of comments, in addition...
1/ Guitar speakers by design are eq'd to roll off the fizz >6kHz so they sound nicer with a distorted amp. HiFi speakers like your Sony let it all through, so they will sound generally nasty with any distortion.
2/ the impedance of the load on your cab will affect the ability of the LM386 power amp to drive it. Higher speaker impedance means less power dissipated. LM386s clip quite musically, I suspect a higher mpedance speaker would get it sounding cleaner. Perhaps you could experiment
1/ Guitar speakers by design are eq'd to roll off the fizz >6kHz so they sound nicer with a distorted amp. HiFi speakers like your Sony let it all through, so they will sound generally nasty with any distortion.
2/ the impedance of the load on your cab will affect the ability of the LM386 power amp to drive it. Higher speaker impedance means less power dissipated. LM386s clip quite musically, I suspect a higher mpedance speaker would get it sounding cleaner. Perhaps you could experiment
- RectifiedAmps
- Fender
- Posts: 516
- Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2014 7:05 am
- Location: Wellington
- Has liked: 212 times
- Been liked: 253 times
Re: Can a different cab affect the gain?
It’d be interesting to compare the frequency response curves for each of those speakers. Remember that the rated impedance of a speaker is usually just the impedance at a single frequency (400Hz I think?) - the impedance at all other frequencies is likely to be different for them and each design has a large resonant peak at a different frequency.