Advice On Amps And Effects Playing Live

[JohnG]

Hi,

Just joined this forum, and really enjoying the posts - you guys really know your stuff - which is great.

I have a bunch of questions about live setup. I have been playing Guitar for a million years, but don't have a huge amount of live experience - typical bedroom guitarist! I have recently joined a covers band and have been doing Corporate & Pub stuff and loving it...why I didn't have the guts to do this years ago is a big regret.

My amp just doesn't cut it at gigs so I have been hiring a Marshall JCM800 combo 100w to get through these but mid Jan I will have a Budget of 5k to spend on my sound.

My Questions are:
When you are using an amp with 2 channels and need to switch between a clean sound and a dirty and also a patch on an effects box, do you have to press 2 pedals (amps pedal switch and effects unit pedal) or do you guys use effects units that can also change the amps channel at the same time? (does that make any sense!)

And should I seriously be looking at getting 2 amps - One for clean, and one for dirty as from what I read Amps seem to do only one thing really well.

Cheers,
John.

[hamo]

Welcome! I'm not one of the more knowledgeable people here, but I would say that rather than buy two amps, get one with lots of usable clean and buy pedals to dirty it up with - cheaper than two good amps I reckon.

[rocklander]

the phrase I've heard is that it's easier to make a clean amp sound dirty than a dirty amp sound clean...
I've not seen many covers bands that use (let alone require) 2 amps. one and suitable pedals and a few tap dancing lessons should see ya right.
but what would I know, I'm a singer

[handsoffmatt]

My Questions are:
When you are using an amp with 2 channels and need to switch between a clean sound and a dirty and also a patch on an effects box, do you have to press 2 pedals (amps pedal switch and effects unit pedal) or do you guys use effects units that can also change the amps channel at the same time? (does that make any sense!)

And should I seriously be looking at getting 2 amps - One for clean, and one for dirty as from what I read Amps seem to do only one thing really well.

Cheers,
John.

Hi John,

As an experienced Covers band guitarist myself - I understand your conundrums and they are very valid quesitons indeed.

Running two amps is often the dream, but few of us have the dedicaiton to set up two amps for every gig! This being the case, I completely agree with the above posts that the best route is to find an amp that excels at clean sounds, and get some great pedals to dirty it up.

With regards to the simultaneous pedal switching/amp switching.....there are ways to do it....but they ain't cheap. I use a GigRig PRO-14 which is a marvellous solution to do this and more......but it's around $2,500 just for this unit (!!!!)

http://www.thegigrig.com/acatalog/TheGi ... BLack.html

Most people will just opt for the tap dance :-p

[mr_sooty]

The Peavey Classic series amps (Classic 50, Classic 30, Delta Blues) have credible cleans and dirties in the same package. Otherwise, like these guys say, you're better off getting a nice clean amp and adding pedals to drive it. No need for two amps, although that can be fun too, but a lot of hassle carrying and mic'ing them both.

Good examples of easy to use amps that take pedals well are again the Peavey Classics, Fender Hot Rod/Blues Deluxes, Vox AC15's/30's, Marshall JCM's, all of which are in your price range, and will leave you plenty for some nice drive pedals.

[Bg]

for a covers band I'd just buy a Pod X3 Live and put it through a decent clean amp - Crate, Peavey etc. Set your patches up and bobs your uncle.

[The Scarecrow]

My amp just doesn't cut it at gigs so I have been hiring a Marshall JCM800 combo 100w to get through these but mid Jan I will have a Budget of 5k to spend on my sound.

Nice! 5k will get several very decent options for you, though it depends on whether you want to go down the amp-modelling avenue as a lot of covers players do for the versatility.

I play live regularly and have learned to be a bit of a dab hand at two-stepping pedals. Quite often I've got to change channels via footswitch, add a delay via my effects unit and change pickups from neck for clean rhythm to bridge for dirty lead when I have a one-beat gap between coming out of a chorus into a solo or the like. I used to limit the sound of things like solos and interesting effects on songs because it seemed like a chore to change settings but I soon found I was limiting the actual songs themselves with the lack of diversity.

I guess that's why I took a multi-effects unit (a Boss ME50) in this case) and aside from the three-button amp footswitch for my Rivera, that's all I use. I play originals, but throw in a lot of random covers in my band and often have to dance effects, but I've memorised most of it now. It's something that comes with time, and I still screw up on the same setlists I've been playing for over a year at times.

For quite a while, particularly when I was just playing straight rhythm in my outfit, I just ran into the amp, no effects bar a tuner and the channel footswitch. As I started writing more in my band, I began to play leads and now the other guitarist and I split lead/rhythm about 50/50, so I employed more effects, especially after listening to a lot of Mogwai, Incubus, Mars Volta and Muse. I figure the tap-dancing approach just reminds me I can't get too drunk whilst playing because funnily enough not all songs sound good with chorus, delay and a phaser.

Regarding amps, if you're using a JCM800, and like the sound of that, maybe look at some of the DSL/TSL stuff. Similar base sound, but more clean and mid-gain options. Fender amps like the Devilles/Blues/ etc sound good with pedals in front of them too, and Peavy Classics are similar.

[JohnG]

Thanks Guys for all the really great advise!
I am learning stuff really fast from Gigging, Like:

The gig doesn't finish until all the PA gear is unloaded from the Van at about 3 in the Morning!

The Bass just kills all my frequncies, and everyone at the gig says "I didn't know you played in a Drum and Bass Band!"

Something Technical will go wrong at least once at every Gig!

Can I really get a great warm distortion through pedals into a clean valve amp? I really like boosted sound of the JCM Combo on the gain channel, but since I only hire it for the Gigs I haven't had time to try pedals into clean.

Thanks.

[Miza]

If you've been using the JCM 800 and its been working for you maybe you should consider getting one? Do you play mostly dirty?

That GigRig that NZRS-Matt mentioned sounds like it would suit you if you want to use lots of effects, and switch channels of an amp at the same time. But bare in mind 5K won't go far if you are starting from scratch buying effects pedals, and an amp, and the gigrig.

I would agree with most people here that a clean channel amp with a couple of decent OD/Dist pedals would probably suit you. I've got a Tube Screamer which I can highly recommend. I will soon need a decent high gain pedal for a Marshall sound, and from what I've seen/heard the MI Audio Crunch Box sounds awesome. THey call it a JCM800 in a box. Custom Audio Boutique who have a banner on this site sell them for about $199.

What amps have you considered getting?

[JohnG]

What amps have you considered getting?

This is where I am a total novice. The first time I have ever played through a tube amp was when I hired the JCM800!
I will be trying out heaps very soon. My budget can go as high as 10k but I think that would be a joke for what I do!
I am keen to try out the Marshall DSL head and some Mesa Stuff, but will be open to whatever sounds geat and is practical.

[crushing day]

Hey there .. welcome to the forum

Most important thing for me for a covers band rig would be versatility. 5k is a pretty good budget to get you a lot of good sounds that you may be required to call upon... plenty of options are key in my experience.

1) A good sounding reliable amp with effects loop that will give you good clean and drive channels, and simple footswitchable channel switching.
2) Effects .. something along the lines of the TC G-System or Boss GT Range, with a good range of the standard effects needed... delay, chorus etc. These type of floor board systems allow you to set up patches for songs, and then insert drive/distortion pedals in loops should you want to (again, options). The TC will also channel switch your amp, so if you want to use a combination of amp drive/clean and effects, or drive pedal and effects, you can. Lots of options, and minimal toe tapping.

Also consider the amount of time involved setting your gear up. Lots of venues can rush you, and give you limited setup and soundcheck time. you don't want to be spending an hour daisy chaining a bunch of pedals together

so, get everything on the floor into a pedal case. A rig that you have 'prepared earlier' as much as possible will save you a whole bunch of time at setup and packdown ...

A good amp, programmable floorboard effects and drive pedals should cover everything you need for a working covers band

[thehenderson]

Welcome!

The reason you shouldn't get two amps for use at the same time is it can be ultimately embarrassing lugging up two amps, pretentious even. You can get great sounds from the one amp!

[zdali]

Line6 FloorPOD or Zoom G7.1ut -> Roland JC120

Working man's rig... I'm sure Rog will agree

[The Scarecrow]

What amps have you considered getting?

This is where I am a total novice. The first time I have ever played through a tube amp was when I hired the JCM800!
I will be trying out heaps very soon. My budget can go as high as 10k but I think that would be a joke for what I do!
I am keen to try out the Marshall DSL head and some Mesa Stuff, but will be open to whatever sounds geat and is practical.

John, where in NZ are you? I have a DSL 100 and cabinet i'm selling, but in no hurry. If you're in Aucks and are interested at some stage, please feel free to contact me and try out, no obligations.

[Hot_Grits]

A decent mid-price option would be something like a Fender Blues Deville 2x12 and a few pedals. I recommend the MI Audio crunchbox for a good 800 Marshall emulation. Perhaps a tube screamer-style pedal as well, plus whatever wah, modulation and delay stuff you need or want for the gig. As far as modulation pedals that cover a lot of ground in a small footprint I highly recommend the TC electronic Nova Modulator pedal.

If I had your budget and was going to do top 40 and wanted a flexible amp that would sound great clean and dirty, take pedals well and be bulletproof over years of heavy use I'd get hold of Ryan at Custom Audio Boutique and try the Bogner EL34 Shiva. Fantastic fenderish cleans, a great drive channel plus boosts. Most of your standard gigging sounds could come from that amp alone. Definitely make time to try this amp, especially if you like your rented marshall's dirt but want a superior clean.

As far as effects switching goes, CD's recommendation of the G system is a good one, as it's an all-in one unit that you can patch some drive pedals into and control everything from one central unit. If you prefer to go with standalone pedals all the way, I suggest you look into Voodoo labs' pedalswitchers and controller, which is a cost and space effective way of getting pedals to switch in combinations and eradicating the tap dance.

But you may just find that a regualr pedalboard is fine. It all depends on how many sounds you want to use. regardless of whatever route you dhoose I highly recommend a good pedalboard like the pedaltrains for ease of setup and packdown.