Can a 'clean platform' amp replace an overdriven amp?
Moderators: Slowy, Capt. Black
- Molly
- Vintage Post Junkie
- Posts: 24960
- meble-kuchenne.warszawa.pl
- Joined: Sat Dec 21, 2013 12:17 pm
- Has liked: 2488 times
- Been liked: 2799 times
Can a 'clean platform' amp replace an overdriven amp?
Tell ya why I ask...
Decided to A/B my Friedman with the Two Rock set clean as ewt but with The Dude overdrive providing the dirt. Both sounded great with neither lacking in comparison to the other (as best I could tell at home levels). I've since bought a Friedman BE-OD with the idea that further overdrive tones could be achieved and I could flick the Small Box to pay for a sexy LP Custom.
So, what do you think? Overdrive pedals have come a long way so is it realistic to hope that a pedal could replace an amp?
Cheers.
Molly (fueled by the warm glow of brandy on this rainy Saturday evening).
Decided to A/B my Friedman with the Two Rock set clean as ewt but with The Dude overdrive providing the dirt. Both sounded great with neither lacking in comparison to the other (as best I could tell at home levels). I've since bought a Friedman BE-OD with the idea that further overdrive tones could be achieved and I could flick the Small Box to pay for a sexy LP Custom.
So, what do you think? Overdrive pedals have come a long way so is it realistic to hope that a pedal could replace an amp?
Cheers.
Molly (fueled by the warm glow of brandy on this rainy Saturday evening).
- godgrinder
- Vintage Post Junkie
- Posts: 1709
- Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 4:49 pm
- Location: 09
- Has liked: 28 times
- Been liked: 594 times
Re: Can a 'clean platform' amp replace an overdriven amp?
Not 100% there for me yet, but a decent FET dirtbox into a great power amp section goes a long way.
The trick is that if you feel that the pedal isn't quite agreeing with your clean channel, plug it straight into the fx return.
The trick is that if you feel that the pedal isn't quite agreeing with your clean channel, plug it straight into the fx return.
Amps:
Soldano SLO100 x2 | Wizard MC1 & MC2 | Diezel Herbert
Fryette Pittbull CL | Marshall 2203KK | Krank Rev 50 | Mesa Mark 2A
Rack stuff:
VHT/Fryette GP3, GP/DI & 2/90/2 | Peters FSM/Chimera
Verellen Meatsmoke | Synergy SYN1 | Mesa Studio
Soldano SLO100 x2 | Wizard MC1 & MC2 | Diezel Herbert
Fryette Pittbull CL | Marshall 2203KK | Krank Rev 50 | Mesa Mark 2A
Rack stuff:
VHT/Fryette GP3, GP/DI & 2/90/2 | Peters FSM/Chimera
Verellen Meatsmoke | Synergy SYN1 | Mesa Studio
- Slowy
- Vintage Post Junkie
- Posts: 22785
- Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2009 4:13 pm
- Location: Orcland
- Has liked: 1018 times
- Been liked: 2482 times
Re: Can a 'clean platform' amp replace an overdriven amp?
My 2c worth?
On stage, the best tones come from finding your amp's sweet spot and using the guitar volume as a clean to distortion control. At home, this often doesn't work; partly because of volume but also because the tones that sound magnificent in a band mix, often don't please the ear in isolation.
So I use an amp set clean and 3 OD's. The first is a J Rockett Archer. It does clean to mid boost. Then there's a ZenDrive which does fat, warm Dumbly OD. Magnificent with a Strat bridge pup. Lastly is a Rockbox Boiling Point. It does absolutely everything from clean to shred and while the Archer and Zendrive are warm, the Boiling Point has more presence. It's the live gig pedal but so versatile that I like it even at home.
With the 3, I have a really satisfying palette of dirt. Don't compare them with real Dumbles or Klons so to me, they sound excellent.
I have owned a nice Marshall and am reminded of it whenever I break out my Catalinbread Dirty Little Secret.
So do I think pedals can replace amps?
tl:dr
Absolutely! And at a fraction of the cost.
On stage, the best tones come from finding your amp's sweet spot and using the guitar volume as a clean to distortion control. At home, this often doesn't work; partly because of volume but also because the tones that sound magnificent in a band mix, often don't please the ear in isolation.
So I use an amp set clean and 3 OD's. The first is a J Rockett Archer. It does clean to mid boost. Then there's a ZenDrive which does fat, warm Dumbly OD. Magnificent with a Strat bridge pup. Lastly is a Rockbox Boiling Point. It does absolutely everything from clean to shred and while the Archer and Zendrive are warm, the Boiling Point has more presence. It's the live gig pedal but so versatile that I like it even at home.
With the 3, I have a really satisfying palette of dirt. Don't compare them with real Dumbles or Klons so to me, they sound excellent.
I have owned a nice Marshall and am reminded of it whenever I break out my Catalinbread Dirty Little Secret.
So do I think pedals can replace amps?
tl:dr
Absolutely! And at a fraction of the cost.
Beyond a critical point within a finite space, freedom diminishes as numbers increase. This is as true of humans as it is of gas molecules in a sealed flask. The human question is not how many can possibly survive within the system, but what kind of existence is possible for those who so survive.
- Molly
- Vintage Post Junkie
- Posts: 24960
- Joined: Sat Dec 21, 2013 12:17 pm
- Has liked: 2488 times
- Been liked: 2799 times
Re: Can a 'clean platform' amp replace an overdriven amp?
Thanks for the replies, chaps. Slowy, that's kind of what I was hoping to read. Also, some of what you said about an amp's sweet spot etc. is echoed in this Pete Thorn video where he's using his Strat's volume control to vary the drive / clean and to get a more full, and dynamic thing going on. From about 6:15Slowy wrote:My 2c worth?
On stage, the best tones come from finding your amp's sweet spot and using the guitar volume as a clean to distortion control. At home, this often doesn't work; partly because of volume but also because the tones that sound magnificent in a band mix, often don't please the ear in isolation.
So I use an amp set clean and 3 OD's. The first is a J Rockett Archer. It does clean to mid boost. Then there's a ZenDrive which does fat, warm Dumbly OD. Magnificent with a Strat bridge pup. Lastly is a Rockbox Boiling Point. It does absolutely everything from clean to shred and while the Archer and Zendrive are warm, the Boiling Point has more presence. It's the live gig pedal but so versatile that I like it even at home.
With the 3, I have a really satisfying palette of dirt. Don't compare them with real Dumbles or Klons so to me, they sound excellent.
I have owned a nice Marshall and am reminded of it whenever I break out my Catalinbread Dirty Little Secret.
So do I think pedals can replace amps?
tl:dr
Absolutely! And at a fraction of the cost.
Also, I really like the clean on my Two Rock. It's an area my Friedman isn't designed to compete with.
- Dharmajester
- Vintage Post Junkie
- Posts: 1595
- Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2015 8:44 am
- Location: Dunedin
- Has liked: 274 times
- Been liked: 380 times
Re: Can a 'clean platform' amp replace an overdriven amp?
I'd say they can provide an adequate substitute rather than a replacement, if we are agreeing that a replacement is a can't tell the difference situation. To my ears the two sound and noticeably feel quite different so it's a matter of what is acceptable to the individual player in their particular playing context.
I enjoy playing with a mild ts style overdrive through a clean Fender amp. However there are other situations, usually involving Gibson's where only a cranked Marshall will make the cut and in that scenario pedals for me don't work but I'd be fucked without the Fryette. Fuzz of course is a whole other ballgame.
I enjoy playing with a mild ts style overdrive through a clean Fender amp. However there are other situations, usually involving Gibson's where only a cranked Marshall will make the cut and in that scenario pedals for me don't work but I'd be fucked without the Fryette. Fuzz of course is a whole other ballgame.
“The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench - a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side."
Hunter S. Thompson
Hunter S. Thompson
-
- Vintage Post Junkie
- Posts: 3106
- Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 1:35 pm
- Has liked: 49 times
- Been liked: 234 times
Re: Can a 'clean platform' amp replace an overdriven amp?
Hey Slowy, in this set up are you stacking the ODs, or straight switching?Slowy wrote:My 2c worth?
On stage, the best tones come from finding your amp's sweet spot and using the guitar volume as a clean to distortion control. At home, this often doesn't work; partly because of volume but also because the tones that sound magnificent in a band mix, often don't please the ear in isolation.
So I use an amp set clean and 3 OD's. The first is a J Rockett Archer. It does clean to mid boost. Then there's a ZenDrive which does fat, warm Dumbly OD. Magnificent with a Strat bridge pup. Lastly is a Rockbox Boiling Point. It does absolutely everything from clean to shred and while the Archer and Zendrive are warm, the Boiling Point has more presence. It's the live gig pedal but so versatile that I like it even at home.
With the 3, I have a really satisfying palette of dirt. Don't compare them with real Dumbles or Klons so to me, they sound excellent.
I have owned a nice Marshall and am reminded of it whenever I break out my Catalinbread Dirty Little Secret.
So do I think pedals can replace amps?
tl:dr
Absolutely! And at a fraction of the cost.
They keep telling me tone is in the fingers, but I have yet to see a "look at my fingers" thread.
Lawrence wrote: Every orchestra that comes thru here is a covers band as are most of the jazz bands...
-
- Vintage Post Junkie
- Posts: 3675
- Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 9:37 pm
- Location: The Tron
- Has liked: 163 times
- Been liked: 410 times
Re: Can a 'clean platform' amp replace an overdriven amp?
Don’t ask me, I’ve always preferred clean platforms with pedals due to the versatility. Yeah you can’t get a dead ringer for the Shiva cranked on channel 2, but that singular tone isn’t enough to put up with all the downsides (not enough variance, VOLUME etc).
- Single coil
- BANNED
- Posts: 10050
- Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2012 5:35 pm
- Location: Public toilet
- Has liked: 1110 times
- Been liked: 485 times
Re: Can a 'clean platform' amp replace an overdriven amp?
Short answer is yes
werdna wrote:Well at least I can still make toast in the bath without anyone telling me it's unsafe.
- GrantB
- ADMIN
- Posts: 15893
- Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2003 9:04 am
- Location: Where I need to be
- Has liked: 1358 times
- Been liked: 2097 times
Re: Can a 'clean platform' amp replace an overdriven amp?
Clean? Whatever is this nonsense? I never want to hear another clean Strat in my life.
But OP, kinda...as outlined above. Yes a TS does good into a Fender amp, but I’d rather have my /13 making the dirt.
But OP, kinda...as outlined above. Yes a TS does good into a Fender amp, but I’d rather have my /13 making the dirt.
"Man is the most insane species. He worships an invisible god and destroys a visible nature. Unaware that this nature he's destroying is this god he's worshipping." - Hubert Reeves
- StrummersOfThunder
- Vintage Post Junkie
- Posts: 7193
- Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 2:23 pm
- Has liked: 815 times
- Been liked: 1304 times
Re: Can a 'clean platform' amp replace an overdriven amp?
FixedGrantB wrote:Clean? Whatever is this nonsense? I never want to hear another Strat in my life.
- werdna
- Vintage Post Junkie
- Posts: 2713
- Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 8:16 am
- Has liked: 590 times
- Been liked: 460 times
Re: Can a 'clean platform' amp replace an overdriven amp?
I play with a guitarist who runs various dirt pedals through a Fender Deluxe. His clean to clean/dirty tones are great. But the rig sounds too polite for the dirty stuff. It sounds light years different from my rig which has Marshall circuits and EL34s into a closed cabinet. You could never close your eyes and not know who was playing. It's that different.
In life, don't sweat the petty stuff, and don't pet the sweaty stuff.
- HackSaw
- Vintage Post Junkie
- Posts: 2781
- Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2015 6:34 am
- Location: AKL
- Has liked: 145 times
- Been liked: 519 times
Re: Can a 'clean platform' amp replace an overdriven amp?
With the neighbour’s wall about a metre from ours, and tenants downstairs with a baby, I never get to hear a properly driven amp, so pedals have to do the job.
But in my view, strum guitar, does the noise it makes please, excite, inspire, titilate you? Then who cares what hardware is in the middle. Fuck conventional wisdom, if it rocks your socks do it!
(Right, back to my usual headphones and software modelling, thus nullifying any opinions I might have)
But in my view, strum guitar, does the noise it makes please, excite, inspire, titilate you? Then who cares what hardware is in the middle. Fuck conventional wisdom, if it rocks your socks do it!
(Right, back to my usual headphones and software modelling, thus nullifying any opinions I might have)
- bender
- Darth Fader
- Posts: 11848
- Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2007 12:46 pm
- Location: Dorkland
- Has liked: 415 times
- Been liked: 1010 times
Re: Can a 'clean platform' amp replace an overdriven amp?
I agree totally with Slowy’s comment about band vs home use. Totally different applications and contexts. Only way to judge is direct comparison at realistic (for normal use) volume. For my home and studio use, pedals into a clean(ish) amp are a completely acceptable substitute.
EDIT: ditto to Hacksaw
EDIT: ditto to Hacksaw
- jimi
- Vintage Post Junkie
- Posts: 3401
- Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 2:23 pm
- Location: Auckland
- Has liked: 843 times
- Been liked: 359 times
Re: Can a 'clean platform' amp replace an overdriven amp?
I gigged a Marshall TSL for years and just used the clean channel with pedals.
Hotcake cranking the clean channel pushing it to break up sounded so much better than preamp clipping in the drive channels. Always had 2 dirt pedals, one for rhythm chunk and one more as a boost.
Now I use a single channel amp, loud and dirty. Volume knob to clean up etc. Still have a couple of pedals to get different tones. Sounds good, but honestly can't say the tone hunt is over. For gigging covers it's more about versatility, convenience and good enough though.
So yeah, pedals can definitely work.
Hotcake cranking the clean channel pushing it to break up sounded so much better than preamp clipping in the drive channels. Always had 2 dirt pedals, one for rhythm chunk and one more as a boost.
Now I use a single channel amp, loud and dirty. Volume knob to clean up etc. Still have a couple of pedals to get different tones. Sounds good, but honestly can't say the tone hunt is over. For gigging covers it's more about versatility, convenience and good enough though.
So yeah, pedals can definitely work.
- Slowy
- Vintage Post Junkie
- Posts: 22785
- Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2009 4:13 pm
- Location: Orcland
- Has liked: 1018 times
- Been liked: 2482 times
Re: Can a 'clean platform' amp replace an overdriven amp?
Usually straight switching. I play with stacking occasionally or accidentally when I forget there's already something on, but it's usually too much for my tastes. Also, I often have some guitar volume in reserve for a bit extra. Especially with P90s.Delayman wrote:
Hey Slowy, in this set up are you stacking the ODs, or straight switching?
Beyond a critical point within a finite space, freedom diminishes as numbers increase. This is as true of humans as it is of gas molecules in a sealed flask. The human question is not how many can possibly survive within the system, but what kind of existence is possible for those who so survive.