Pickups out of phase, worth it?

[RuBear]

I'm debating with ash over my heilos pickup options, a while ago I decided on each bucker having a 3-way switch for series/parallel/single coil. My latest question was wether its worth having the option to the pickups out of phase with each other. Note: I mean two pickups out of phase with each other, not one humbucker with each coil wired out of phase with each other. Adrian says he doesn't find it useful and I have little to no experience with it.

What do you guys think? It would probably mean I would have to change the 3-way pickup selector to a 5-way, or else add another switch to the guitar, which is kinda annoying when it already has 3 3-ways, but at the end of the day I want to be able to access any settings that are useful to me.

So my question is, do you think an in/out phase switch is worth it/usable? In particular Capt. Black and Tsuken your opinions would be great.

Cheers,
Rupert the Beer

[sopachrga]

I'm not on your list but anyway.

I've got my humbucker wired like that on my RG,
It's basically useless. Sounds completly tinny and nothing like a single coil.
I can't see anytime that you would actually use the sound, I would just go for coil taps.

[Pakehendrix]

+1.

I had one with all the funky switching and out-of-phase sounded arse. So did my friend's guitar, and also one of the teachers at the music school...it either sounds arse, or no different to coil tap (if you're very lucky).

[RuBear]

I'm not on your list but anyway.

I wasn't meaning that anyone elses opinions were unwanted, just that ash recommended them as people who had the option on their guitars.

Is your humbucker wired so that each of its coils in out of phase with each other? or that the pickup as a whole is out of phase with another pickup, I'm asking about the later. (I'll now go and make this clearer in the first post, its kinda ambiguous)

[sopachrga]

Mines wired so I can make my bridge humbucker out of phase with the single coil next to it.

[Bg]

yeah sounds like arse unless you know who Peter Green was....

[Ears]

I once read the reverse phase of one HB was an unintentional wiring mistake on Green's guitar. Doesn't matter, it obviously allowed some sort of option. I have two questions,
1 Was it the two coils in one HB that were out of phase or was a whole unit out of phase with the other HB?
2. As he probably used different combinations which specific songs feature the out of phase option?

[Bg]

I once read the reverse phase of one HB was an unintentional wiring mistake on Green's guitar. Doesn't matter, it obviously allowed some sort of option. I have two questions,
1 Was it the two coils in one HB that were out of phase or was a whole unit out of phase with the other HB?
2. As he probably used different combinations which specific songs feature the out of phase option?

Most sources attribute it to his guitar tech accidentally flipping a magnet in one of the humbuckers, no-one can agree whether it was neck or bridge. So the whole pickup was 'out of phase' magnetically rather than electrically, the end result is essentially the same, though subtly different I feel having tried both ways.

Most people don't understand the effect and most people who think its useless don't have a guitar like a LP with two vol control knobs. When you're in mid position you control the amount of phase by varying one or other vol controls. Yes thin and nasally when you only have one vol control.

Many of his recordings use the effect, but he varies a lot between pickups so its tricky until you start listening for it. Track down Merry Go Round, it stands out a mile at the start of the track and other places, its probably the most obvious track I can think of off the top of my head.

[Ears]

Thanks for that.
One magnet only? (edit: Doh!)

I'm going to have to go away and draw a diagram of the coils and re-apply the fundamentals of HB operation. Unfortunately I have to go over it periodically as for some reason it never sticks in my head. You know; how the string signal adds but the interference cancels cause only one of the two depends on the magnetic field etc. Using right hand currrent rules and stuff. Doh.

[Bg]

oh and of course he put it in back to front too, with the adjustable pole pieces the wrong way round - though that makes absolutely negligible difference on tone.

[Ears]

Grab it BG, it's good
http://www.trademe.co.nz/DVDs-movies/nz ... 537/k-.htm

[Tsuken]

Everyone seems to be talking about wiring the two coils of a humbucker out of phase with each other. The OP expressly said that's not what he's asking about. He's considering having two the option of two pickups out of phase with each other - like Brian May's guitar, or Satriani's ...

I have the option on my Ash guitar, and it will be on my next as well. I think it's a great sound, and well worth putting in. It can be quite nasal and thin, but often in a useful way: sharpening and cleaning up a tone for a different sort of effect.

[Bg]

Everyone seems to be talking about wiring the two coils of a humbucker out of phase with each other. The OP expressly said that's not what he's asking about. He's considering having two the option of two pickups out of phase with each other - like Brian May's guitar, or Satriani's ...

I have the option on my Ash guitar, and it will be on my next as well. I think it's a great sound, and well worth putting in. It can be quite nasal and thin, but often in a useful way: sharpening and cleaning up a tone for a different sort of effect.

erm, no, thats not what I'm talking about - two humbuckers out of phase with each other either magnetically or electrically.

[Tsuken]

Everyone seems to be talking about wiring the two coils of a humbucker out of phase with each other. The OP expressly said that's not what he's asking about. He's considering having two the option of two pickups out of phase with each other - like Brian May's guitar, or Satriani's ...

I have the option on my Ash guitar, and it will be on my next as well. I think it's a great sound, and well worth putting in. It can be quite nasal and thin, but often in a useful way: sharpening and cleaning up a tone for a different sort of effect.

erm, no, thats not what I'm talking about - two humbuckers out of phase with each other either magnetically or electrically.

ok, not you

I must have misunderstood though; you were talking about one magnet being flipped in one pickup - ie it's a within-pickup change. But you're saying it's actually the combination?

I disagree about needing two volume controls for the out of phase sound to be useful though - unless you're talking specifically about Peter Green's jobby. I've only ever had one volume control on my guitars, and had plenty of out of phase-ness, and loved it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFNxOQ_8Uxs - I start with bridge and middle in series and out of phase, and at 1:10 I flick them in phase.

[Bg]

well there is only one magnet in your usual paf style humbucker, its just flipped round so that north becomes south and vice versa. So now that humbucker is magnetically out of phase with the other humbucker. With two vols it becomes much more interesting and tonally exciting as you balance the vols against each other the phasing changes so you get much much more versatile options. Otherwise its just the regular nasal twang