How Good Should You Be Before You Care About Tone?

druz15 · Post by **druz15** » Wed Sep 28, 2011 7:53 am

Capt. Black wrote:A. Define bad tone.

B. How far do you have to get before it's considered good tone?

How far is all the way, and then if it stops, what's stopping it, and what's behind what's stopping it? So, what's the end, you know, is my question to you.

sty · Post by **sty** » Wed Sep 28, 2011 7:55 am

It's obvious that there's a whole world full of different 'tones', and a world of different tastes, so trying to categorise them as good or bad is probably a foolish thing to try and do.

Sometimes a tone which would be defined as truly bad would be great to serve a particular song (serving the song is something I've never heard being called a bad idea on here). To illustrate the point here's two examples of what people would probably regard as broken tones:

1) The guitarist with The Kinks (Ray or Dave, not sure who did this) actually slashed his speakers with razor blades which probably produced a nasty noise when played through, but it totally worked in the songs they were playing.

2) There was a dance song a while back that had sampled and used the interference noise you get when a mobile phone is about to go off. It's not a musical tone, and it's horrible on it's own but it worked well in the song.

To me a more usful thought about chasing tone is trying to achieve that sound you have in your head, or trying to perfect that sound you've found in your rig, whether it's a single tone you want to have forever or a specific tone for one single song or phrase. I think this is a facet of guitar playing that runs in parallel to songwriting. Not everyone is going to be a song writer, some people just want to play songs that have been written, but if you care about the sounds of playing then your probably being just as musical.

I think once you start to care and take an interest in the tone, or sounds you're making, then you've proabably moved a step above mechanical playing and you're now interested in putting a little (or a lot) of yourself into the music you're making.

In my view you probably need to get the mechanics required to play your choice of tune/song in place before it's worth chasing the tone. It doesn't mean you can't invest in gear though because as has been pointed out in here, and I can testify to myself, sometimes different (usually better) gear can make mastering the mechanics much easier. This isn't tone chasing though, not yet, IMHO.

calling card · Post by **calling card** » Wed Sep 28, 2011 9:43 am

Rog wrote:Tone/sounds are totally subjective. For instance, my likes/dislikes in tone/sounds are (predictably) bound to be different from yours. Some examples:

I love the sound of a straight six car engine

I refuel with 47 litres of petrol every 3 days just to keep my 'turn key' tone alive

Tsuken · Post by **Tsuken** » Wed Sep 28, 2011 10:22 am

Rog wrote:Tone/sounds are totally subjective. For instance, my likes/dislikes in tone/sounds are (predictably) bound to be different from yours. Some examples:

I loathe the sound of American V8s
I loathe the sound of Subarus
I loathe the sound of Harley Davidsons
I loathe the sound of a two-stroke engine
I loathe every tone of every metal band I've ever heard, including my son's band (sorry son, it all sounds the same to me and I simply don't hear anything other than crap noise there)
I love the sound of a straight six car engine
I love the tone of the distortion in Steely Dan's (named after a strap-on dildo in case you didn't know) Reeling in the Years
I love BB KIng's tone, yet he's basically a guitar/lead/amp player
I love the sound of a soulful sax, such as that used in 'Us & Them'
I love the sound of a good blues harp, when played by an expert
I love the roar of the sea (the only sound I hear every night from my home)
I love subtle guitar effects pedals and loathe unsubtle guitar effects
I don't differentiate between single coil or humbuckers when it comes to tone. Either (to me) is capable of producing beautiful or crap tones - dependant largely upon the player's settings.

Finally - all of the above may change due to the largest factor of them all - context.

That's because straight sixes sound better. Simple

More relevant an example: I hate BB King's tone. So does my wife. Everyone else in the world seems to love it.

Context is really important, as demonstrated ably by Reeling in the Years: I'm pretty sure I would hate that sound in isolation, but in the song it works. Also Billy Gibbons: he uses some of the most god-awful sounds ever produced by strings (if you could separate them from his playing, and the whole sound of the song), but they're awesome.

mr_sooty · Post by **mr_sooty** » Wed Sep 28, 2011 10:49 am

Tsuken wrote:Context is really important, as demonstrated ably by Reeling in the Years: I'm pretty sure I would hate that sound in isolation, but in the song it works.

+1. It's such great guitar playing and sounds great in the context of that song, but IMHO the tone itself is pretty horrible. Fuzzy scratchy nastiness, but wonderfully tastefull playing and as you say, it all just works in context.

Rog · Post by **Rog** » Wed Sep 28, 2011 10:53 am

Too right. In general I dislike distortion anyway. Extreme distortion exits the realm of musical tone and enters the area of industrial noise to me.

hamo · Post by **hamo** » Wed Sep 28, 2011 10:59 am

Rog wrote:Too right. In general I dislike distortion anyway. Extreme distortion exits the realm of musical tone and enters the area of industrial noise to me.

I can't fault that logic, I'd love to start an industrial band.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLCZhQX_Fm0[/youtube]

Rog · Post by **Rog** » Wed Sep 28, 2011 11:13 am

Yep! Those guitars sound like the office girl learning to drive an arc welder to me. Very industrial!

rocklander · Post by **rocklander** » Wed Sep 28, 2011 11:15 am

Mick Ronson is a conundrum of tone for me.. on paper I should dislike it, but I love it.

Pastasauce · Post by **Pastasauce** » Wed Sep 28, 2011 12:07 pm

I reckon you're right. This for example...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G54D-Y4m ... re=related[/youtube]

I reckon I wouldn't want to sound like that when I play guitar (the backing, more distorted gat)... but it really sounds perfect in the song.

Post by **Capt. Black** » Wed Sep 28, 2011 12:56 pm

rocklander wrote:Mick Ronson is a conundrum of tone for me.. on paper I should dislike it, but I love it.

If I could say any one guitarist was my tone hero, it's gotta Mick Ronson. Key to his sound though, was using a fierce amp and a couple simple effects, then to go looking for new and different sounds. On record especially with Bowie, he often used multiple layers of different sounds which added up to an awesome tone across a track. Panic in Detroit is a good example where it is easy to hear all the different tones going on.

Jimmy Page did much the same thing through most Zep albums but he dialed up some pretty out there tones in an effort to sound fresh and unique.

Like I've said before, back in the day, both those guys sounded like they'd arrived from another planet. They were so different to anything else at the time and that's a big part of what made them so successfully recognizable.

Looking back you can tell Page was trying really hard to be deliberately obtuse. He wasn't looking for beautiful tones. He was trying to turn recorded blues on it's head. I suspect he was also quite ADHD.

calling card · Post by **calling card** » Wed Sep 28, 2011 2:38 pm

Essential viewing right here...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dK4I-NmeXS4[/youtube]

druz15 · Post by **druz15** » Wed Sep 28, 2011 3:36 pm

calling card wrote:Essential viewing right here...

was just thinking of this

alanp · Post by **alanp** » Wed Sep 28, 2011 3:42 pm

Flashbacks to Dr Sbaitso, right there...

Post by **Capt. Black** » Wed Sep 28, 2011 5:12 pm

calling card wrote:Essential viewing right here...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dK4I-NmeXS4[/youtube]

Su-fucking-perb!

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