Legendary tones

[godgrinder]

But... may be not all of them... to replicate their sound you don't require tone or even that great of a set up.

I guess it depends how closely you are trying to replicate them, and what you deem a great set up.

Or how deaf he is.

[Les_Paul86]

But... may be not all of them... to replicate their sound you don't require tone or even that great of a set up.

I guess it depends how closely you are trying to replicate them, and what you deem a great set up.

Or how deaf he is.

Ok Godgrinder...

Hetfield... A solid body with EMG's, Gain up, scoop the mids. Chug.

Easily achievable on a pre-set line 6 modulation box with a strat. Now try getting a 59 Fender Bassman sound with the same thing.

I'm not saying they sound sh*t, I'm saying there is a difference in "tone" and "sound". This thread was "Who's got great Tone", not "Who's guitar sound do you like?"

[Danger Mouse]

Firstly, the use of "OI" at the start made me belly laugh DM, so thank you lol.
Though I think I will have to agree to disagree I'm afraid. I can understand perfectly how you can chase the sound of a guitarist and that your own tastes mean you are more appreciative of certain sounds. That make sense completely and I'm not saying it's crap at all. I love a bit of metal me, not so much the heavy stuff but Def Lep, Whitesnake, Extreme, love em. So trying to sound like them is no lesser that trying to sound like anyone else you are inspired by.

But... may be not all of them... to replicate their sound you don't require tone or even that great of a set up.

Yeah I can see we're not going to agree here, but for me there's a huge difference between "in the ballpark" and actually replicating a good metal tone, especially Hetfield with his fabled Mesa Mk11C+ pre into a Marshall 100W power section and no Line 6 on the planet will get close. Even the other Mk Mesas don't cut it, it HAS to be a Mk11C+ to nail Hetfield. If you think that is "easily achievable", then it just shows you have no appreciation of what constitutes a great modern high gain tone.

I just I think metal guys get a bit of an unfair meathead label sometimes, like we can't tell good tone from bad, or that we're not really musicians, just because metal is supposedly for dumb 15 year old bogans. I'm a bloody dumb 41 year old bogan, thanks!

(truthfully, I'm just as much as a tone snob as anyone else on this forum).

[Thewilltopowerrock]

Never really considered Navarro as a tone icon though.

I largely agree in terms of outright tone. I think for me in this respect his impact is very context-dependent, in that early Jane's Addiction blew me away.

[bender]

Hetfield... A solid body with EMG's, Gain up, scoop the mids. Chug.

Easily achievable on a pre-set line 6 modulation box with a strat. Now try getting a 59 Fender Bassman sound with the same thing.

I'm not saying they sound sh*t, I'm saying there is a difference in "tone" and "sound". This thread was "Who's got great Tone", not "Who's guitar sound do you like?"

Yeah, I don't even like metal all that much and I know how much of a load of outright bollocks that is.

[Les_Paul86]

Firstly, the use of "OI" at the start made me belly laugh DM, so thank you lol.
Though I think I will have to agree to disagree I'm afraid. I can understand perfectly how you can chase the sound of a guitarist and that your own tastes mean you are more appreciative of certain sounds. That make sense completely and I'm not saying it's crap at all. I love a bit of metal me, not so much the heavy stuff but Def Lep, Whitesnake, Extreme, love em. So trying to sound like them is no lesser that trying to sound like anyone else you are inspired by.

But... may be not all of them... to replicate their sound you don't require tone or even that great of a set up.

Yeah I can see we're not going to agree here, but for me there's a huge difference between "in the ballpark" and actually replicating a good metal tone, especially Hetfield with his fabled Mesa Mk11C+ pre into a Marshall 100W power section and no Line 6 on the planet will get close. Even the other Mk Mesas don't cut it, it HAS to be a Mk11C+ to nail Hetfield. If you think that is "easily achievable", then it just shows you have no appreciation of what constitutes a great modern high gain tone.

I just I think metal guys get a bit of an unfair meathead label sometimes, like we can't tell good tone from bad, or that we're not really musicians, just because metal is supposedly for dumb 15 year old bogans. I'm a bloody dumb 41 year old bogan, thanks!

(truthfully, I'm just as much as a tone snob as anyone else on this forum).

I admire your passion dude. None of what your saying is wrong. I wouldn't say I have no appreciation, I didn't say it was bad I just don't have quite the appreciation for metal tones as you. I think it's really that we have a different opinion of what "Tone" is and that's what I was getting at with my first post.

You metal guy's should never feel undervalued. Some of the best musicians of all time would class themselves as Metal artists. It's bass players who should feel that way cos we all know... "There are Bass players... and then there's Bass players".

[Les_Paul86]

Hetfield... A solid body with EMG's, Gain up, scoop the mids. Chug.

Easily achievable on a pre-set line 6 modulation box with a strat. Now try getting a 59 Fender Bassman sound with the same thing.

I'm not saying they sound sh*t, I'm saying there is a difference in "tone" and "sound". This thread was "Who's got great Tone", not "Who's guitar sound do you like?"

Yeah, I don't even like metal all that much and I know how much of a load of outright boll*cks that is.

Ke?

[godgrinder]

Yeah I can see we're not going to agree here, but for me there's a huge difference between "in the ballpark" and actually replicating a good metal tone
...
If you think that is "easily achievable", then it just shows you have no appreciation of what constitutes a great modern high gain tone.

My understanding on that is a high gain distortion sound has a lot going on frequency/harmonic content wise, so to the uninitiated ones they can all tend to sound like the same wideband noise, but the ones that are familiar with it or listened carefully can tell the nuances. While the difference in two clean sounds are usually a lot more easily decipherable.

However something tells me that he haven't heard/played many (if any) good high gain amps in person...

[bender]

Hetfield... A solid body with EMG's, Gain up, scoop the mids. Chug.

Easily achievable on a pre-set line 6 modulation box with a strat. Now try getting a 59 Fender Bassman sound with the same thing.

I'm not saying they sound sh*t, I'm saying there is a difference in "tone" and "sound". This thread was "Who's got great Tone", not "Who's guitar sound do you like?"

Yeah, I don't even like metal all that much and I know how much of a load of outright boll*cks that is.

Ke?

The 'Easily achievable on a pre-set line 6 modulation box with a strat' part. Utter rubbish.

In fact your whole argument about tone vs sound is pretty silly too.

It could be valid about Jimmy Page in that most of his cool tones are as a result of experimenting with different recording techniques and mic positions ('Houses of the Holy' from Physical Graffiti being a prime example- mic behind an open-back cab).

[Les_Paul86]

Yeah I can see we're not going to agree here, but for me there's a huge difference between "in the ballpark" and actually replicating a good metal tone
...
If you think that is "easily achievable", then it just shows you have no appreciation of what constitutes a great modern high gain tone.

My understanding on that is a high gain distortion sound has a lot going on frequency/harmonic content wise, so to the uninitiated ones they can all tend to sound like the same wideband noise, but the ones that are familiar with it or listened carefully can tell the nuances. While the difference in two clean sounds are usually a lot more easily decipherable.

However something tells me that he haven't heard/played many (if any) good high gain amps in person...

Hello, still here and have a name, it's Paul.

No no.. played plenty but it's as you just said... they sound the same. Some good, some not so good. AGAIN though... not once have I indicated that this is a bad thing or that metal is any less of a genre than any other. I will say one more time though... "Tone" is a different entity all together.
What might help is if I was to say that tone is possibly more difficult to achieve on a high gain amp due to as you said "frequency/harmonic content". There you go, there's one for your team.

[hellblazer]

I get where this guy is coming from.
I listen to a lot of really shit music because I like the sound of the guitars too!

He just likes boring dad blues through tubescreamers, I personally prefer rehashed sabbath through fuzz pedals.

[bender]

No no.. played plenty but it's as you just said... they sound the same. Some good, some not so good. AGAIN though... not once have I indicated that this is a bad thing or that metal is any less of a genre than any other. I will say one more time though... "Tone" is a different entity all together.
What might help is if I was to say that tone is possibly more difficult to achieve on a high gain amp due to as you said "frequency/harmonic content". There you go, there's one for your team.

What he actually said is that you couldn't tell the difference between them, not that they sound the same. You are simply flat out wrong that tone is more difficult to achieve on a high gain amp- what is true is that you have a harder time appreciating it. Doesn't mean it isn't there. Bare in mind that this is coming from the guy who basically doesn't like anything more than the barest hint of gain.

[sirvill]

I'm confused now... I'm not sure I understand the difference between "tone" and "sound"

[bender]

I'm confused now... I'm not sure I understand the difference between "tone" and "sound"

One is subjective, the other is also subjective, but less so.

[Les_Paul86]

The 'Easily achievable on a pre-set line 6 modulation box with a strat' part. Utter rubbish.

In fact your whole argument about tone vs sound is pretty silly too.

It could be valid about Jimmy Page in that most of his cool tones are as a result of experimenting with different recording techniques and mic positions ('Houses of the Holy' from Physical Graffiti being a prime example- mic behind an open-back cab).

Well alright... lets here a counter argument then? If you're gonna discount something, show us why?

If there's no difference in sound and tone then why can I only sound like jimmy Hendrix? I have a strat and a fender amp, I'm playing the same notes, I can add the same pedals and same amp settings but for reason it's never quite there.