Legendary tones

[Les_Paul86]

Yep, doesn't make a lick of difference to your point though. Tone still exists in a high-gain context.

I didn't say it didn't exist. I re-read your posts, now re-read mine. You just pointed out the tonal difference if I was to plug into someone else's gear. proving my point and that tone does exist. I said that tone is more difficult to detect in high gain and therefore not something that is generally considered "toneful".

[Les_Paul86]

So we're all stupid then and everything is pointless.

Yes. Have you only just figured that one out?

Stop it... I'm trying to be serious.

[Danger Mouse]

I said that tone is more difficult to detect in high gain and therefore not something that is generally considered "toneful".

By people ignorant of metal and high gain, hence my previous metal = meathead post.

Personally I'll be fecked if I can spot any difference between SRV's tone, John Mayer's tone or Kenny Wayne Shepherd's tone, but I'm not into that style of blues enough to be able to make the distinction. Ignorant of the subtleties, if you will.

[hellblazer]

@LesPaul86

Hey man, you did pick a lot of the usual boring guitar mag favourites. I don't think anyone outside of guitarists listens to Bonamassa you know?

Really the only "legendary tones" are the wholly unique and idiosyncratic ones. Any successful guitarist is going to have good enough tone for whatever they do, because it's their job to coax pleasing sounds out of their gear. It's all tone though. The idea that one strata is better because... it hews closer to archaic technology? hmmmm.

If that classic-rock bollocks is the epitome of tone, it's just the gentrification of the gear scene, old guys with their midlife crisis Gibsons are half of the gear market (aspiring teenage metalheads the other half) so that's where the money is. Safe and accepted wisdom rules the day. Plus the innate conservatism, hero-worship and fetishism of guitarists, of course.

I do enjoy a bunch of the artists you mentioned. Here's a guitar tone that makes my hair stand on end
(So I'll grant you the fingers and a good amp, but wood doesn't necessarily need to be involved, haha.)

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i79f87C0M1c[/youtube]

(and that song's from 1995... and basically aping Andy Gill's work in the 80s, so even my own choice here is pretty backwards looking!)

[bender]

I said that tone is more difficult to detect in high gain and therefore not something that is generally considered "toneful".

For you.

[jeremyb]

I don't wanna have to wash some sand out of all your vaginas, before things get outta control, put down the keyboards lads and have a beer!

[Danger Mouse]

I don't wanna have to wash some sand out of all your vaginas, before things get outta control, put down the keyboards lads and have a beer!

Don't worry jb, I don't actually give two shits about this discussion, I'm just passing time talking crap on an internet forum.

[bender]

Mine is actually full of 50-year-old Hunduras Mahogany sawdust sprinkled with unicorn tears.

[jeremyb]

Mine is actually full of 50-year-old Hunduras Mahogany sawdust sprinkled with unicorn tears.

Johnny Bench called!

[Les_Paul86]

Hey man, you did pick a lot of the usual boring guitar mag favourites. I don't think anyone outside of guitarists listens to Bonamassa you know?

Really the only "legendary tones" are the wholly unique and idiosyncratic ones. Any successful guitarist is going to have good enough tone for whatever they do, because it's their job to coax pleasing sounds out of their gear. It's all tone though. The idea that one strata is better because... it hews closer to archaic technology? hmmmm.

If that classic-rock bollocks is the epitome of tone, it's just the gentrification of the gear scene, old guys with their midlife crisis Gibsons are half of the gear market (aspiring teenage metalheads the other half) so that's where the money is. Safe and accepted wisdom rules the day. Plus the innate conservatism, hero-worship and fetishism of guitarists, of course.

So you think classic rock is bollox, no one listens to JB, blues is boring and all gears the same? If that's true, why is Eric John still playing his old strats? Why do we have analogue gear? Why are some of the most desirable amps on the planet an old beat up Vibrolux? Why would you have a choice of Maple or Rosewood? but yeah... no such thing as tone ay?

[godgrinder]

No no.. played plenty but it's as you just said... they sound the same. Some good, some not so good.

What might help is if I was to say that tone is possibly more difficult to achieve on a high gain amp due to as you said "frequency/harmonic content". There you go, there's one for your team.

Let's take some common high gain amps as example, Mesa Recto, Engl Powerball, Fryette Ultra Lead, Krank Rev. The frequency response and harmonic content of these amps are worlds apart between each other. They all have a lot going on - but in vastly different ways.

I didn't say it didn't exist. I re-read your posts, now re-read mine. You just pointed out the tonal difference if I was to plug into someone else's gear. proving my point and that tone does exist. I said that tone is more difficult to detect in high gain and therefore not something that is generally considered "toneful".

Even the same model of high gain amp can yield very different tones depending on the player's playing style and how it's dialed in. Kim Thayil (on Superunknown) and Fredrik Thordendal/Mårten Hagström (on Chaosphere) had extremely different tones while all using old 2ch Recto's. Same goes for Page Hamilton and Aaron Turner who both use Fryette Ultra Lead's.

[Les_Paul86]

Mine is actually full of 50-year-old Hunduras Mahogany sawdust sprinkled with unicorn tears.

Can I have some?

I don't wanna have to wash some sand out of all your vaginas, before things get outta control, put down the keyboards lads and have a beer!

Don't worry jb, I don't actually give two shits about this discussion, I'm just passing time talking crap on an internet forum.

It's a debate, but despite my best efforts not to offend anyone and explain my reasoning, I some how still pissed some guy's off who don't believe what I was saying even existed

[Les_Paul86]

No no.. played plenty but it's as you just said... they sound the same. Some good, some not so good.

What might help is if I was to say that tone is possibly more difficult to achieve on a high gain amp due to as you said "frequency/harmonic content". There you go, there's one for your team.

Let's take some common high gain amps as example, Mesa Recto, Engl Powerball, Fryette Ultra Lead, Krank Rev. The frequency response and harmonic content of these amps are worlds apart between each other. They all have a lot going on - but in vastly different ways.

I didn't say it didn't exist. I re-read your posts, now re-read mine. You just pointed out the tonal difference if I was to plug into someone else's gear. proving my point and that tone does exist. I said that tone is more difficult to detect in high gain and therefore not something that is generally considered "toneful".

Even the same model of high gain amp can yield very different tones depending on the player's playing style and how it's dialed in. Kim Thayil (on Superunknown) and Fredrik Thordendal/Mårten Hagström (on Chaosphere) had extremely different tones while all using old 2ch Recto's. Same goes for Page Hamilton and Aaron Turner who both use Fryette Ultra Lead's.

Nice. Good counter argument and one for me to ponder and look at. Thank you.

Had you said that the first time instead of an insult... I probably wouldn't still be posting on this thread.

[Darth Sabbathi]

If that classic-rock bollocks is the epitome of tone, it's just the gentrification of the gear scene, old guys with their midlife crisis Gibsons are half of the gear market (aspiring teenage metalheads the other half) so that's where the money is. Safe and accepted wisdom rules the day. Plus the innate conservatism, hero-worship and fetishism of guitarists, of course.

Ouch! I felt that...

Anyway, back to Leslie West. Mmmhmmm

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Edbw6AqF2ko[/youtube]

[willow13]

I think the title of the thread should be legendary styles not tone. To me tone is sound and certain things have certain sounds, like a les paul has a certain sound that most of them have. A marshall has a certain sound etc

By naming players you are talking more about their sound, which I call their style. Brian May doesn't sound like he does because of his gear (yes it does "adds" to his sound but doesn't define it) he sounds like him because of his style.

Its the reason people who know their own style can make just about any gear sound like their normal gear

YMMV