Help with Playing & Singing

Its all in the fingers, or is it?

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Help with Playing & Singing

Post by The Scarecrow »

How many of you guys play gat and also do vocals simultaneously. If you do, you have my utmost respect.

Recent changes to band have meant that our new vocalist has fallen through. Naturally we are quite gutted because he is a mate we have known for years, has a good range of tones and is commanding on stage. Plus, with our previous singer leaving to travel, it was a great opportunity to bring him in, but now due to child-custody arrangements and a difficult ex, he can't commit. No ill-will, family first, always.

Leaves us back as a 4 piece, and the struggle to find a vocalist has been a bit daunting. Although we've got a mix of screamy and clean vocals, our last frontman was a dedicated screamer and we have decided to go for a clean vocalist in light of the fact our material has matured a bit since we started playing together 7 years ago. Unfortunately, we haven't had much luck so far, so I've had to step in and cover as well as play guitar. I rate myself as a competent player, and a fair vocalist for BV's and the odd cover, but i was usually able to tailor my parts I wrote to only a couple of chord changes.

I am find when playing chords, or even repeated riffs/motifs, but struggled the last couple of practices trying to do lead vocals and some of my parts, which involve a lot of picking. Obvious answer is more practice, but does anyone have any tips that can help? I'm prepping myself for the possibility that it may be a long term thing if we can't find the right person as we would rather keep playing. Confidence is not an issue, I think my brain has trouble playing to one pace and singing to another.

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Re: Help with Playing & Singing

Post by JHorner »

Change all your songs so that the words are in time with the guitar :sarc:

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Re: Help with Playing & Singing

Post by olegmcnoleg »

I do a lot of playing and singing, and it has taken me a long time to get comfortable doing both. For most styles of music, the singing is actually a lot more important than the guitar too, so that's quite a change in mindset.

My advice? You need to practice the guitar parts a LOT, so you can play them without looking at the guitar, without any hesitation. When you can play them without even thinking about them, then you can add the vocals and not get too distracted. it is a lot of work to do it well.

Good luck.

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Re: Help with Playing & Singing

Post by Vince »

The Scarecrow wrote: I am find when playing chords, or even repeated riffs/motifs, but struggled the last couple of practices trying to do lead vocals and some of my parts, which involve a lot of picking.
If you're a four piece, can you not rearrange the music to get the other guys to pick up some of the slack so that you can simplify your guitar parts and concentrate on the vocals?

What are the other guys playing? Bass, Drums and... keys? 2nd guitar?
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Re: Help with Playing & Singing

Post by calling card »

Along with many things it's my great challenge too. Amazes me how once those lyrics get in your head they mostly come out when needed...mostly or even jumbled around. I've got to get used to playing the instrument blind, fucking hard looking at the fretboard and getting in vocal range of mic.
Best thing is I don't entirely hate my voice on playback :)
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Re: Help with Playing & Singing

Post by Mr Davison »

Yeah, I need my gat parts to be rehearsed till effortless before I sing over them.

Oleg's post summed it up perfectly for me.
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Re: Help with Playing & Singing

Post by Kloppsta »

In my own experience i found it really difficult to start singing on songs that i hadn't originally written the vocal melodies and lyrics for.
Everything just felt super awkward to try and sing "how the last singer sang it" while playing how i originally played the guitar parts. i think that's pretty normal though as whether you are conscious of it or not, your brain will approach your strumming, picking, rhythm etc. very differently between writing ONLY the music or writing the music and vocals at the same time. In the end we actually had to "give up" playing those songs and focus on writing new ones with me as the primary singer. We did try and re-write vocals and lyrics for the old songs but they just never sounded the same (well duh!) and never felt right. It was less painful to say goodbye to them than to try and butcher them to fit with the new line-up structure.

Sucky situation to be in bro! Sorry.

Another singer who could "learn" the previous singers style just for those songs could still come along? These days there is a wider audience for instrumental alt-rock/metal etc. Losing a singer could be an opportunity to re-build yourselves as a mammoth instrumental band? :)
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Re: Help with Playing & Singing

Post by The Scarecrow »

Kloppsta wrote:In my own experience i found it really difficult to start singing on songs that i hadn't originally written the vocal melodies and lyrics for.
Everything just felt super awkward to try and sing "how the last singer sang it" while playing how i originally played the guitar parts. i think that's pretty normal though as whether you are conscious of it or not, your brain will approach your strumming, picking, rhythm etc. very differently between writing ONLY the music or writing the music and vocals at the same time. In the end we actually had to "give up" playing those songs and focus on writing new ones with me as the primary singer. We did try and re-write vocals and lyrics for the old songs but they just never sounded the same (well duh!) and never felt right. It was less painful to say goodbye to them than to try and butcher them to fit with the new line-up structure.

Sucky situation to be in bro! Sorry.

Another singer who could "learn" the previous singers style just for those songs could still come along? These days there is a wider audience for instrumental alt-rock/metal etc. Losing a singer could be an opportunity to re-build yourselves as a mammoth instrumental band? :)
I think you have hit a key point here; our setlist is about 8-10 songs and I have issues mostly with about half of them that were written with the ex-singer onboard - prior to that the drummer and i used to split vocals 50/50, which is kinda what we are going back to for now. I am going to attempt to rewrite the vocal parts over the wekend.

Re: instrumental... to be honest, i just don't really connect without vocals. I like a lot of stuff in that vein, but I think it wouldn't be for my lot.
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Re: Help with Playing & Singing

Post by Rog »

I'd love to have a real singer, but in my bands everyone lead sings and plays an instrument or doesn't get hired. I have around 200 songs I sing lead on and the other guys have about 150 each. So I've come from zero singing load to this and I had to do it all while playing bass. In the beginning it was pretty dire. After a while, I learned to auto-pilot the bass work and put more into the vocals. When I switched to keys, the whole thing became MUCH easier (the keys sonic range really helped). Now that I'm the guitarist, I've found that its a piece of cake to sing over lead work on most songs. There's still the odd number where the song and the lead work don't sit together nicely, though. My way around that is to simplify the song a little to suit what laughingly passes for my talents and I guess that's what I'd recommend others do, at least while they get everything nailed, then they can re-introduce the hard parts.
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Re: Help with Playing & Singing

Post by Zaulkin »

I think it's a good idea to make sure you've got a good handle on the guitar and vocals separately and then practise doing them together. That way one part isn't hindering the other. Once you've got that, rehearse them together as if you were playing one instrument. Focus on the strong beats to help with your timing. Personally I let the guitar parts happen without overthinking it.

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Re: Help with Playing & Singing

Post by Capt. Black »

Hey Reuben. Long time!

Ages since I've seen you guys live.
Are Kris and Nick still the rhythm beasts?

I think you hit the nail on the head when you said the music was maturing.

I'd say go new! If you're taking over vocals, write new stuff that is all yours. Do what works for your voice and ability.

As for the older material, maybe pick the best of the songs you're most comfortable with and strip out all the excess guitar parts.
You've always had a way with a riff. So imo stripping things back to let the rhythm section drive the songs could have the effect of lending much more impact when guitar comes in and, new arrangements should give the set a freshen up it probably needs.

Maybe? :)

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Re: Help with Playing & Singing

Post by Bg »

yeah, or you could go synth pop and do some great midi backing tracks?
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Re: Help with Playing & Singing

Post by crowbgood1 »

Practice practice practice. I sing and play guitar.
You need to know the lyrics so you don't need to think about them. Even when you get it, you will need to play it a few times till you get the groove.
I use an acoustic guitar for practicing alone. Play the songs like that; lots.
Oh yeh, try tapping ya foot. That can help.
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Re: Help with Playing & Singing

Post by Vince »

Vince wrote: If you're a four piece, can you not rearrange the music to get the other guys to pick up some of the slack so that you can simplify your guitar parts and concentrate on the vocals?

What are the other guys playing? Bass, Drums and... keys? 2nd guitar?
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Re: Help with Playing & Singing

Post by rickenbackerkid »

Good point from Vince. I do sing BV's in my band and the only way to learn it is practice, practice, practice. There are some songs that I still can't do, however. We do Hella Good by No Doubt, and the echo in the chorus I can't sing. Highly rhythmic guitar part and a highly rhythmic vocal part on an off beat. I can't do it and may never get it. In those cases, I guess if needed you could change the arrangement to get around it.

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