Tone is in the fingers, speed is in the brain?

Its all in the fingers, or is it?

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hamo
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Tone is in the fingers, speed is in the brain?

Post by hamo »

I've been thinking about playing fast, or at least playing certain riffs up to speed. We always seem to think/talk about it in terms of finger speed and muscle memory, but I find that I am more limited by “thought speed”. My fingers can keep up with what I’m trying to do, but my brain can’t, and that’s what messes me up. Does anyone else feel like their speed of thought holds them back? Or is the trick to just practice something so much that you can take the thought part right out?
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Re: Tone is in the fingers, speed is in the brain?

Post by mrmofo »

holy heck hit the nail on the head there Hamo. I guess taking the thought out means (to me) looking at the end point of a lick and hoping to be there when the drummer finishes his roll.
I`ve never thought about it in those terms but you are right, finger speed is mostly due to muscle memory where as thinking about what is played comes before the lick starts. or after.
if both of those are in sync then yee-haw nice solo.
I need to be reminded to think while I`m playing, half the time I`m thinking about what others are playing.
There are still some that think the neck PU is moved to accommodate the extra frets which only proves they cannot detect the difference in length of each.

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Re: Tone is in the fingers, speed is in the brain?

Post by sirvill »

Sometimes its not left hand speed but right hand speed/accuracy that holds me back.

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Re: Tone is in the fingers, speed is in the brain?

Post by calling card »

After years of ignoring doing pento scale run practice, I'm doing it, building up speed often crashing, don't look at it don't think. Listen.
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Re: Tone is in the fingers, speed is in the brain?

Post by JHorner »

hamo wrote:practice something so much that you can take the thought part right out?
yes.

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Re: Tone is in the fingers, speed is in the brain?

Post by Scooter13 »

Yep. Muscle memory plus good technique, and playing in time, or "locked in to the groove" if you will. Speed is a byproduct of those things. You can mentally push the speed of what you're playing, but it will likely sound sloppy if you haven't put the practice in first.
If we're talking about insanely fast shred runs, then you do have to practice pushing the speed (tempo/bpm)up, but the groundwork has to be there first?

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Re: Tone is in the fingers, speed is in the brain?

Post by Vince »

Well, ONE problem I have, in playing fast, is that I raise my fingers too high.

Understandable, between my love of hammering and the heavy bass strings.

But of course, what goes up must come down and it takes me longer to bring my fingers down. A microsecond each time, but it adds up.

So if you're going to practice speed, it's also good to practice keeping your fingers close to the fretboard. Not really brain-intensive, but useful. You can practice until you're blue in the face, but if you're not playing the right way, you're just reinforcing bad habits.
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Re: Tone is in the fingers, speed is in the brain?

Post by Danger Mouse »

hamo wrote:Or is the trick to just practice something so much that you can take the thought part right out?
It's this. I am reasonably proficient at shredding and playing fast, but I do this by practicing until all I need to think about is "I'll play this lick, followed by this run, bend here, move to this position and play this lick" etc. The actual physical movement required to do that is instinctive, much in the way running is instinctive. I think "I will run now", my body then takes this instruction and manages the movement my muscles and co-ordination of my limbs for me, I'm not thinking "move this foot forward to this point, move this foot to this point..."

I have gained this ability by practicing the same licks, or variations of those licks, since I was a teenager, so I have that muscle memory. If I see a new lick I want to learn, I expect a good few weeks of working on it before it gets moved to the "library of instinctive licks" part of my brain where it becomes just muscle memory. If I don't bust out the lick every now and then, it gets moved back to the "I need to think about this" part of my brain and I will, most likely, mess it up when I try and play it.

It's interesting when learning other people's solos too, often you can find certain licks, or phrases, that make you think "this guy is a guitar GOD! I cannot play this!". But reality is he's probably been working up to playing that part of a solo all his guitar-playing life. It's just become part of his "library of instinctive licks".
The older I get, the more disappointed in myself I become.

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Re: Tone is in the fingers, speed is in the brain?

Post by hamo »

Danger Mouse wrote:
hamo wrote:Or is the trick to just practice something so much that you can take the thought part right out?
It's this. I am reasonably proficient at shredding and playing fast, but I do this by practicing until all I need to think about is "I'll play this lick, followed by this run, bend here, move to this position and play this lick" etc. The actual physical movement required to do that is instinctive, much in the way running is instinctive. I think "I will run now", my body then takes this instruction and manages the movement my muscles and co-ordination of my limbs for me, I'm not thinking "move this foot forward to this point, move this foot to this point..."

I have gained this ability by practicing the same licks, or variations of those licks, since I was a teenager, so I have that muscle memory. If I see a new lick I want to learn, I expect a good few weeks of working on it before it gets moved to the "library of instinctive licks" part of my brain where it becomes just muscle memory. If I don't bust out the lick every now and then, it gets moved back to the "I need to think about this" part of my brain and I will, most likely, mess it up when I try and play it.

It's interesting when learning other people's solos too, often you can find certain licks, or phrases, that make you think "this guy is a guitar GOD! I cannot play this!". But reality is he's probably been working up to playing that part of a solo all his guitar-playing life. It's just become part of his "library of instinctive licks".
So I'm back to needing a DeLorean then? :wink:
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Re: Tone is in the fingers, speed is in the brain?

Post by calling card »

I should have added; alternating picking, downstroke first note, upstroke on next fret /the note you're leaving to move down to the next string. rinse repeat to the end then back up. Make any sense?
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Re: Tone is in the fingers, speed is in the brain?

Post by Danger Mouse »

hamo wrote:
So I'm back to needing a DeLorean then? :wink:
It's all about the practice. If you had the ability to play uninterrupted for an hour a day, every day, from today onward, you could achieve huge things in a year.

I got my speed by just working on my speed, it was all I was interested in. As a kid my parents wanted me to learn songs, but all they ever heard coming out of my bedroom was scales, exercises and solos, drove them nuts...
The older I get, the more disappointed in myself I become.

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Re: Tone is in the fingers, speed is in the brain?

Post by Dharmajester »

As a teenage fencer I was told that in a fight our moves were controlled by the vestigial reptilian brain at the base of the spine. Hence the ability to react faster than the brain can fire off instructions etc.
I'd apply this principle to speed playing too. I had an accident about six years ago while tree felling in which I slid down a very steep bank in the mud and came to rest when my coccyx impacted against a rock protruding from the ground. Passed out and came to a different man. All my guitar skills had gone out the window, no speed anymore and no access to years of stored licks and patterns etc so yeah my vote goes to the area at the base of the spine..
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Re: Tone is in the fingers, speed is in the brain?

Post by TmcB »

Speed is the byproduct synchronisation of hands + correct pick technique in my book
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Re: Tone is in the fingers, speed is in the brain?

Post by Molly »

I don't consciously think about playing fast at all. I think if I did it'd be like stage fright (bit like I feel when someone is sitting right there watching me). Maybe disengage the brain. :-)

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Re: Tone is in the fingers, speed is in the brain?

Post by Mini Forklift »

For me at least it takes me a hell of a lot of terrible-sounding practice before I manage to get a tough/fast lick under my belt. I've never been able to play very fast, maybe that's why I got into the blues lol. Prime example is the Bonamassa/Johnson 5-note run I'd always wanted to able to play. I watched this video then spent a good couple of hours just simply trying to get the right hand part nailed. Tougher than it sounds as the picking is a little challenging at first...



Took me probably close to a week before I was able to play it convincingly with speed ~ whereas now I can play it without even having to think about it :thumbup:

My 2c and to summarise briefly, my logic tells me that skill(s) and proficiency are developed from a hell of a lot of consistent practise; when I watch the guitarists that I'm into play, none of them seem to be thinking what comes next, or where on the neck they need to be. It just flows from them, it's very much instinctive and surely that kind of 'autopilot' playing is a result of playing for hours day in, day out :?:

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