Audioslave - "Revelations"

foal30 · Post by **foal30** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 7:04 pm

I find it farcical to deny that de la Rocha acted without integrity or belief in what he stood/stands for. The only ones to seriously platform this would his ex-bandmates and the only gripes I am aware off involve priorites , not lack of action. (Homeless Action Tour c2001)

Agreeing with it might be a different thing, but he has defiently put his money where is mouth is.

I'm not that hung-up on Audioslave's past. Some critics have really pasted them for various sins but I enjoy them for musclar, grooving rock. I do not need or wish for anything else from them , Morrello has obviousley made a decision he can artistically and politically live with. And thats cool.

and as a fairly full-on follower of Marxist inspired thought I would venture the paradoxs and hypocrocies presented by RATM are far greater than Audioslave. The moot point is possibly this:
If Morrello gets 10000 kids to either read Chomsky, listen to Public Enemy or join UNITE then he has enacted far reaching and worthwhile politicisation of many more youths , than cap wearing Gramsci quoting Trotskite poets. I do think there is a lot more to come from Morrello, maybe it will be with SOAD, maybe it will be with a Latin American Political wing, but if he funds it with Audioslave catalog I won't mind at all.

Jenesis · Post by **Jenesis** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 7:31 pm

I like the music, but don't care about the politics.

slash-ed · Post by **slash-ed** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 7:42 pm

+1000

Terexgeek · Post by **Terexgeek** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 8:45 am

Lets support Castro everyone, oh and Che Guevara too...great guys they are...

Just don't oppose Castro politically in Cuba...they don't have freedom of speech, equality yes, everyone is shit poor, but no freedom...

Oh and Che? If you weren't for him, then you deserved to be slaughtered, in cold blood and your children indoctrinated...

Really love De la Rocha's politics...bloody revolution anyone? Wonder if he's a fan of Osama?

Really struggle to take such perspectives seriously, dislike Bushes politics too, hate his stance on war and the Middle East....At least you can oppose him and NOT disappear forever...

foal30 · Post by **foal30** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 6:50 pm

disappear forever?

can you spell Guantanamo...

I see Pinochet's finally dead, who put him in and kept him there...

thats right, it's not murder when it's a white man making money from it.

As for championing our "Freedom of Speech" it's only free if you own the printer or got the $ to stop the publishing. Nice use of one rule for all by Don, he's gonna be really missed.

The Republic of Cuba has been the victim of external terrorism by the United States for 50 years now, whilst the leaders of the free world ignore every UN Mandate on the issue. The even stop Cuba importing water-purifiers.
America will not rest until Cuba is back to a slave state , processing Sugar and Tobacco for US business.
but thats freedom eh?

Optimus_prime · Post by **Optimus_prime** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 6:56 pm

there is no such things as freedom of speech

it's just a nice few words that are empty

Post by **GrantB** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 9:05 pm

Mmm...politics aside, I tend to agree that the latest offering falls short of the other two. The catchy tunes aren't there in as much abundance. In saying this, I think Audioslave in general falls short of creating a lasting effect with any of their music - it's great when you're in there doin' it, but when it's over you just get out of bed and go home. No smoochy cuddles, or after glow...and it's often a few months before you knock on the door again...

Terexgeek · Post by **Terexgeek** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 7:48 am

foal30 wrote: disappear forever?

can you spell Guantanamo...

Forever ain't happened yet and none of the guys there have disappeared, human rights people are working on getting them out...as I said before I don't support Bush, they shouldn't be there, but they didn't disappear and there families know where they are. The Japanese imprisoned my great uncle and tortured him, it's not very palatable for me to say this but those guys in Guantanamo have had better treatment.

foal30 wrote: I see Pinochet's finally dead, who put him in and kept him there...

Yip and he was a nasty fucker and yip he wrote the book on making people disappear, you seem to have assumed I'm some kind of American conservative supporter, I definitely not. I don't support the US administration, I have a purely pacifist agenda and frankly any one who advocates armed conflict of any kind doesn't deserve support of any kind...Stalin, socialist agenda, I'm agin him, Pinochet, fascist agenda, I'm agin him and frankly Bush, conservative agenda, I'm agin him.

Please don't make the classic political assumption: There are two sides and "we" are right, our agenda is pure and therefore "we" are infallible, anything our movement does is unquestionable and anyone who does question is agin "us" and must be dealt to...

foal30 wrote: thats right, it's not murder when it's a white man making money from it.

So it's perfectly exceptable for every other racial group to profit from blood related industries? Latinos, asians and africans can murder indescriminally kill and it's okay? War is bad okay!

foal30 wrote: As for championing our "Freedom of Speech" it's only free if you own the printer or got the $ to stop the publishing. Nice use of one rule for all by Don, he's gonna be really missed.

So you wouldn't be upset if another person in an institution you associate with/work for (i.e. charity, workplace, educational facility) published ALL your emails? I would be if all mine were

. I also would like to live in a society where I personally have a measure of privacy

. It's probably helpful to point out again I don't support Don either but I can see why he would've done what he did. Also not widely reported is that Don reversed the court order so the book could be released, what an evil man!

foal30 wrote: The Republic of Cuba has been the victim of external terrorism by the United States for 50 years now, whilst the leaders of the free world ignore every UN Mandate on the issue. The even stop Cuba importing water-purifiers.
America will not rest until Cuba is back to a slave state , processing Sugar and Tobacco for US business.
but thats freedom eh?

And Castro never tried to attack the US and passively sat back and absorbed all the US aggression???...I refer you to the comments above and please try reading a little wider than just pop socialist sound bites. Pick up a history book or ten and try not to think of the world in terms of black and white, us and them, socialist and conservative. The planets' politics are shades of grey and you can have a perspective without having "a side".

War, weaponry and fighting are never the solution

lionking · Post by **lionking** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 12:53 pm

I just got to give a little in depth reply to some things said.....

I live in Miami,where over the years many latin people have fled to because of communist/socialist dictatorships.This city is now 80% latin because of that including many Cubans.I showed several Cuban co-workers at work the comment about Cuba being the victim of American oppression and they shook their heads.

I had a boss whos brother was taken away and executed.In Cuba at a certain age children are taken to indoctrination schools and required to work sugar cane fields and parents have no say so in the matter.Cubans build rafts and brave the 90 mile straits ,some never making it to escape.
American businesses oppressing Cuba?,many Cubans here started with nothing and with hard work made successful businesses,where in Cuba the hard work and labor is not your own but the governments,what kind of incentive is that to better yourself?.Neighborhoods have "watchers" who keep out an eye for non conformists and are rewarded if they turn in such people.

A cuban exgirlfriend of mine was a nurse there,here she started at minimum low jobs and still lived better than there.So I got to wonder about artists who live in a nation that allows them to freely express themselves and gain the rewards of a free market yet use that to out down that very system.You never see them renouncing their citizenship and moving to Cuba,North Korea,Venezulea and such.

War and weapons are never a solution?Sorry but unfortunately they are.I believe self defense whether protecting your life,loved one or freedom is a natural right.As long as there are bad people wanting to do harm people should be able to defend themselves.

Conservatism:actually I am in some of my principles though American conservatism may be different than other parts of the world.And there is so much slander and disinformation about it that many times people only know the propaganda they heard.Fact is Bush is not a conservative in many ways.Actually Im better described as a libertarian.

Some of those ideals are;

I dont believe in centralized government.I believe that government is contradictory to liberty,and at best a necessary evil.Under the guidelines that America was built on a small Federal government with limited power with state and local governments(and personal liberty) making up the rest.With the Bill of Rights to protect all ulimately.Sadly Bush and so called conservatives say this but don't practice it,hence the principles are at odds with policy.

I have now started to vote Libertarian as Republicans and Democratic parties are both out to create a nanny state,and have largly forgotten the Bill of Right in America.

Iraq;I supported Bush.He,even the former president Clinton and foreign nations said that Iraq had WMD and was a threat.Now it seems it was poor planning,lies but when Russia and France rejected going there it was'nt for humanitarian reasons,they were concerened about lost revenue and business with Sadam.Many people here seem to have forgotten George Washingtons comment that this nation should never form allies.As the way it goes the enemy of your enemy is your friend while tommorrow your friend may be your enemy.

America may be the big dog on the block for now,but for the most part America has never gone to war to create a "empire" unlike the communists.The taliban who supported Osama attacked us and other western nations,we had every right to go to Afghanistan,we coud just lay waste to it or conquer it but no, like usual America and its allies rebuild then ultimately leave.

Gitmo?Yeah,be a prisoner of the Taliban and see how well you get treated.They want to kill all including kids on purpose...I loose no sleep by having them at Gitmo,fact is they should have just been "neutralized" from the get go.Where I see wrong is if a citizen is imprisoned without due process.

In communist states the government is all knowing all supreme which stamps out religion,personal thought which would endanger the state.Yeah what a great way of life.America and western nations might not be utopian but its alot better then communism.Would Rage against the Machine be allowed to speak bad about their communist regime?I think not.Internet? hah! if they have it the gonvernment severally filters it.

Corporate greed? yes there is but what about government greed ?Funny that those who yell viva la revolution tend to back a govenment that views the people as servants and not the other way.

Gonvernment doesn't create wealth,people do and it should be theirs to do what they want with.Who is gonna care more about someones child,the parent or the goverenment?...well sometimes there are bad parents but.I dont need the government collecting hundreds of dollars out of my paycheck for retirement then sending it back to me a little at a time and telling me how to spend it.Thats whats happening here with social security and there running out of funds because the government spent it away.

anyway phew,off my chest.

Terexgeek · Post by **Terexgeek** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 1:58 pm

Wow, thanks for your perspective lionking!

I can't help but agreeing with you on most of your points and respecting your opinions. The word I shouldn't have used is never, you're correct on the self defence point, but we may disagree on the circumstances of self defence

.

Sadly yours is not the only country with a nanny state!

I will point out that allies are important as we all share the planet and New Zealand and the US of A have really only ever fallen out over nukes (we don't have them and don't want them) and invading countries. Yet we both have freedom loving democratic, capitalist societies built up by immigrants. New Zealand has also put it's meagre resources into assisting America regularly, most recently helping rebuild Afganistan and we buy a significant amount of goods produced in the USA and by USA companies (significant difference there I know) and we place no tariffs on your imports to our country, sadly the products you purchase from us are tariffed, oh well

.

Afghanistan we may also disagree on, but perhaps that could be put down to the propaganda I've been exposed to versus the propaganda you've been exposed to

Great to hear from an informed source, thanks again and rock on!

darkness · Post by **darkness** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 2:04 pm

Terexgeek wrote: (we don't have them and don't want them)

careful. don't speak for all kiwis there. Weapons no, but power is viable.

Post by Bg » Wed Dec 13, 2006 3:40 pm

careful don't speak for all kiwis there, you want nuke power it will cost you more than a horrendous amount of money - you have to have some of the spent fuel rods buried in your backyard.... having worked in the nuclear industry - the last thing I'd want is to see it happening here.

Post by **Capt. Black** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 4:26 pm

bluesgeek wrote:careful don't speak for all kiwis there, you want nuke power it will cost you more than a horrendous amount of money - you have to have some of the spent fuel rods buried in your backyard.... having worked in the nuclear industry - the last thing I'd want is to see it happening here.

I KNEW IT!!!

Kilkenney + your liver, bladder and assorted other internal organs all contributing to the production of enriched Urineum.

I can feel my teeth glowng every time I stand near you!

Terexgeek · Post by **Terexgeek** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 8:26 pm

darkness wrote:
Terexgeek wrote: (we don't have them and don't want them)
careful. don't speak for all kiwis there. Weapons no, but power is viable.

I didn't mean nuclear power but I'm inclined to agree with BG, there are hidden costs, even the "spent rod" reactor only exists in theory so far and apparently costs gazillions of bucks (note the carefully researched financials

) to build...

Meh, I'd be happy with a big-ass hydro scheme or ten...mmm...earthmovers

foal30 · Post by **foal30** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 9:31 pm

The reply was not intended as any painting of you as Conservative simply throwing out some lines/concepts as I felt/feel your post left unanswered would be irresponsible of me.

Would you like to recomend some History books? Would be really keen on seeing what you would consider a valid reference.

I think you have mis-construed the "it's murder when it's a white man making money off it" barb. I was attempting to state that "our" crimes are forgivable, not mentioned , a mistake, best intentions gone astray.
Where our eniemes are evil, corrupt, devioues etc...
If I look at you ranking Japenese P.O.W Camps vs Guantanmo this is sort of what I am getting at, it's them or they (the Japenese) so obviousley there crimes are worse than ours (Guantanamo).
I would argue the result is the same, illeagl detainment, tortuers, barbarism dressed as civilization or security.

At no stage to I wish top imply that my motives are pure or infallibale, a proveable accusation I could level at Castro's regime may be the persacution of Homosexuals , for example.

"Castro sat passivley" yeah he tried to asassinate many U.S, Presidents. The liberal Media has never published this though...exactly what has been the Castor regime's crimes against the US? and will anyone here say that Cubans had it better under Baptista's regime?

"Pacifist Agenda". well that probably means denouncing violence in all it's forms, which is pretty much the entire Capatilist system. I find it hard to believe that it can be viewed as a sucksess. Unless of course you are lucky enought o live ina state that has through acts of War and Violence got into a position of privilige.

"Pop Socialist sound bites" . you can do better than this. Although without your recommended reading list maybe I should reserve judgement. The whole last paragraph is condescending, and I look forward to your history lesson on the correct learnings I need to educate myself. Throw us some good spelling ones too...

"Move to Cuba, Nth Korea etc" well going to Cuba and then returning is a 20 year jail term in US, right? Freedom of movement....

"Miami Cubans" , that the people who were the collaberators take offence with Castro's regime is no surprize. the Indocriantion comment is hilarious, are you seriously implying that we are not bombarded with Capatilist Propoganda every minute of every day? That a privilged class of Slave-Owners , traitors, and lackeys are annoyed with there lot now is not something to lose sleep over. "Brothers Executions" . What state are you living in again? Frying Capatil , with a recently retired Govener who to all appearnences was in a death penalty compotition with his brother...

Afghan self-defence. Your Government is not re-building , it is securing a pipeline from the Causacus. And bombing 20000 civilins is not self-defence it is mass-murder. Or were they all Taliban?

I could go on (and on and on) but I did tell myself I've got to try and keep this politics to a bare minimum on this site. So it is nice to hear some other views , I better go put some Audioslave on eh?

Apologies for creating you thinking I was painting you as something you identify youreself as not being Terexgeek.

and Lionheart, thanks for your contribution, obviousley I don't agree , but hey disscussion leads to understanding hopefully?