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I'm quite keen to write some songs, and altho' I have some riffs and the like that I think sound good, I'm not so sure how to mould it all into a cohesive song, how do you guys go about creating original music?

I take four different ideas from what I have laying around and force them together into one song then play it to my writing partner who chucks out one or two of them and changes the arrangement and overlays clever quim lyrics on top. Then we take it to the band and force them to come up with their own parts, dial in some volume and, voila!

I make up lyrics to other peoples' songs to song to my kid.

a riff is not a song
although I'm sure the right riff can make a song

Without being sanctimonious or condescending I think you need a cat to bounce ideas of, 'to form up' the songs cohesiveness.

the studied approach is to disassemble songs you already like and work out why the work for you.
there is a number of benefits to this system but it is more time consuming. (well can be if it takes lots and lots of listening like it does for me)
it's also a different type of fun to live song shaping/arranging with your mates.

i forgot to say JB,
check out the MUSE website as periodically they have

songwriting 'class'
songwriting 'forum'

and several of their small venue musician performance include Q&A on both education and the song-writing process

foal30 wrote:Without being sanctimonious or condescending I think you need a cat to bounce ideas of, 'to form up' the songs cohesiveness.

I have 3 cats to bounce ideas off, but TBH, they're more interested in washing their bits and chasing lizards.

I've decided I'm pretty hopeless at writing songs, I now have 58 unfinished bits of songs, usually about 18 bars worth, sitting in my music folder, that I've written since xmas. I should listen to them again as there may be the odd jem amongst them.

BG wrote:

foal30 wrote:Without being sanctimonious or condescending I think you need a cat to bounce ideas of, 'to form up' the songs cohesiveness.

I have 3 cats to bounce ideas off, but TBH, they're more interested in washing their bits and chasing lizards.

I've decided I'm pretty hopeless at writing songs, I now have 58 unfinished bits of songs, usually about 18 bars worth, sitting in my music folder, that I've written since xmas. I should listen to them again as there may be the odd jem amongst them.

Seriously, combine bits of each. I reckon the most interesting music is often made of sections that you'd think wouldn't work together when you were writing them.

For me, its always lyrics first. Something will trigger an idea, then that expands to become a spoken verse of sorts. As I'm running the words over in my head, a musical pattern will normally form and I'll play with that until it makes a new song. Then I'll spend however long it takes to tidy it up, although most often I'll want to do some things differently every time I play or practice it.

Others prefer the music first, but that's never worked for me.

Don't beat yourself up and make things too hard.

I was doing a guitar lesson and I was trying to get the kid to relax a little ... so I write a song off the cuff about KFC.

He was adamant that it was a real song. It was C G F, C G F, C F G, C G F. The chorus was Am F G. And guitar solo was bitchin' dude. On my acoustic.

You should record your riffs into a computer, upload them to soundcloud or box and colloborate with someone.

Robert Palmer allegedly had Simply Irresistible written completely ... but coudln't tie the song together because he had written the phrase 'she used to look good to me' ... but he hadn't come up with '... but now I find her ...' and then the accented bit before 'Simply Irresistible'.

So BG is probably sitting on some gems (which would make for a sore ass)

I sometimes start with a chord sequence or a riff/hook. But I try to build the song around a theme or story. I might park the chords or rough idea for a number of weeks; revisiting to see if I can define a loose structure for it, and write some rough guide lyrics. Might start off using phonetic or vowel sounds to indicate the rhythm or melody of the lyrics.

Other times I hear a great line or read something and think 'that's a great line/concept, or turn-of-phrase'. There's no hard or fast rule on what comes first. But, there must be some core idea; even if it's just the title.

Never get too worried if it takes long to rewrite the lyrics and music as I have "past participle of get" some good songs from being patient. It takes time to do; cut out the crap and keep refining the central idea/theme until it works. Longest time for one song was about 12 years. I had a nice set of chords and a really good first line but nothing worked after that. So I parked it until I was ready to finish it off.

The main thing I do is let it develop. But like any skill you need to put time in and keep working away at it. Same as learning an instrument - you only get back what you put in.

Also don't be afraid to stop and throw away stuff if it's not working. Not everything's a keeper.

Words first then the music comes after that its kind of weird you have to be in the right mood or it just wont work sometimes it happens quick sometimes not---

Suggestion that you check the book "Songwriting for Dummies" which is very very good. i don't like the insulting title, but recommend it to you Alternatively go to the Master Class of Pat pattison (Berklee) 17th May courtesy of BOP Polytech (admission $50). I shall be there, looking forward to it.
failing that, write up your words so they flow, and have the same 'beat' value for every line. Double space. Then speak them in time to your beat (suggest 4 for a start). That will keep you going for a few hundred hours... hope this helps

Step 1: Noodle around on guitar until I find a 'bit' I like.
Step 2: Play that bit for months and months thinking I really like it and isn't it a shame that I can't think of where it should go next.
Step 3: Realise that that bit fits would fit really well with another bit that I've had floating around unfinished for months/years.
Step 4: Put them together and noodle some more.
Step 5: Admire my work and think I have the makings of a kick ass song
Step 6: Put hackneyed vocal melody that sounds like several other songs over the top and then add some 'tortured 5th Former' lyrics
Step: 7 Listen back to results, cringe, and decide that it was always an instrumental anyway.

*bump*

Most songs I have written have started from a riff, then expanding on it. Normally if I have say just a riff and no set song in my mind, I picture where abouts in a song the particular riff would be. Then its a matter of expanding on the riff.
Most times though I have a tune in my head, a vocal melody and a particular sound Im after, then its a matter of nailing it as close as I can.

I dont have rules though for how a song is laid out, I have written songs that have the standard formula, some 12 minute ones, some that just have a chorus only, some that have 4 minutes of guitar noodling and a 30secs of singing.... the key thing is it is always fun. Bonus if another person likes it lol