How many hours a day do you practice?

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Re: How many hours a day do you practice?

Post by bender »

Zaulkin wrote:
benderissimo wrote:I have a fundamental problem with music that sounds too perfect. Overproduced, overpracticed, overstudied, overcorrected (whether it be autotuned or edited so that it's in time) music makes me angry. Flaws, rawness and unpredictability are what makes music interesting to me. In the same regard, the first time I play a lick is the time I like it most and the more I try to recapture that by practicing it the more it loses it's soul. My solution is to figure out the essence of the lick (usually two notes that fall on particular beats) and practice working those into whatever else I happen to be playing. That way they come out different every time. What I'm getting at is that the only practice I really do is noodling.
You don't like music to be tight? I agree that sometimes mistakes can sound really cool and give you ideas of how you may want to change the arrangement of your song though.

I think your version of 'noodling' is a relaxed way of practicing improvising.. You are learning the guide tones of a chord and how to get to them. Noodling to me has always been mindless, just letting your muscle memory feel around and see what you can do.

Most things lose their brilliance if you practice them, but if you don't practice it, you don't know it.. So I think an extra discipline I have had to learn is how to re-appreciate the beautiful licks I have learnt plenty of times... And it works for me.
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I love music to be tight, but there's a threshold where tightness becomes sterility (to my ears anyway). Tightness (to me) isn't about perfection. That threshold has been ignored/forgotten/raped in a lot of what I hear these days. Particularly guilty parties: Pop music, contemporary Metal, contemporary Rap, modern Jazz... I could go on. about 12 years ago I was playing in a jazz/funk band and got really frustrated trying to find inspiring music to listen to along the lines of what I wanted to play. All of the contemporary music I tried to get into (Jamiroquai, The Headhunters reunion album, DIG etc) lacked something that I couldn't quite put my finger on. The old stuff I was listening to from the 60s and 70s had it in abundance (James Brown, Parliament, Sly and the Family Stone, The Headhunters, The Meters etc). Then about 6 years ago I read a book called "The Death of Rhythm and Blues" by Nelson George that obliquely summed it up (albeit in a racially slanted way that I didn't entirely agree with). Basically he talked about how Rhythm and Blues (and by extension Jazz, Funk, Soul, Blues etc) at its core (and inception) is raw, emotional music that is learned and passed on by feeling it and living it. As it became popular (and was accepted by white people :roll: ) the Western Music tradition of studying and slavishly practicing and perfecting (borne out of classical music) took over and effectively removed what made this music what it was. I kinda think that's over-dramatising but it rings true in a lot of ways for me. Now I'm not advocating that studying and practicing are bad but for the way I want to be able to play, I don't think they work (at least not by the definitions of them that I know).

You're bang on about my version of noodling- I've been a musician for 26 years now (although only 20 years of guitar) and it's taken me a long time to work out a practice regime that works for me. I'd say it's probably only been in the last 4 years. When I'm able to find the time to regularly practice (which isn't as often as I'd like) I like to simply find a groove and improvise around it. When I'm doing it a lot I find it incredibly easy to write and to improvise, when I'm not I tend to fall back on the same licks and patterns that I've wrote learned over the years (not a bad thing really but not as satisfying or exciting). I'm pretty lucky in that I can grab a guitar at work when I'm not busy (although that's been almost not at all over the last month or two).

Playing music by the seat of my pants is what I'm all about.

(Apologies for the rantiness- I feel quite passionately about the lack of rawness and excitement in so much of the music I hear but YMMV IMO etc etc etc ad infinitum)

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Re: How many hours a day do you practice?

Post by TmcB »

I am totally on your wave-length, Ben.
I went around to a mates place last night and he showed me heaps of music, lots of metal and jazz. I just hate the clinical tones of both genres, the drums might as well have been programmed due to how perfect and overplayed they are. I think that there is this weird thing of wanting to be awed by the player's ability as opposed to the actual music. Look at any crowd at a Satch, Vai or Malmsteen gig, they're not there to hear the music, they're there to be gobsmacked by seeing someone play like that in the flesh. I have no problem with that, but it does represent the focus on perfection thing.

I went to this random creatives get together in a half built studio on tuesday; GREAT musicians would turn up and have a jam whilst artist were creating art and everything was being captured on the desk and hardcore cameras. Bloody daunting and didn't help that the poweramp of the bass crapped out when I stood up to the plate. Got it sorted and jammed out some sweet tight funk and it was all good. It's the sort of situation where perfection doesn't mean shit; you can't get it perfect because you don't know what's going to happen next in the jam, you've just got to go with the flow and trust in your technique, ear, and knowledge of the fretboard. The main step I need to achieve is being able to name the note on every fret of the fretboard, so that when I pick up the key I'll know the 'safe' notes. That's the big thing I need to work on, as well as getting more precise.

After that creative jam thing, we were talking about how we actually embraced the screwups and sometimes everyone adapts to those mistakes in such a way that it actually makes the music better.

I guess it's a goal oriented thing. If you want to be able to improvise and jam well, you'll practice in a certain fashion, if you want to play something technical perfectly you'll practice in a different way also.
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Re: How many hours a day do you practice?

Post by hamo »

Interesting to hear you both mention metal as clinical. Perhaps the modern technical/extreme stuff is, but the reason that I gravitated towards hard rock and heavy metal is the passion in it. It stirs me up. Sure there are elements of precision in someone like Iron Maiden, but it doesn't diminish the passion or the feeling from the music. I tend to find banality in music comes from intent, such as with many pop songs where the intention seems to be to sell rather than to create.
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Re: How many hours a day do you practice?

Post by jeremyb »

Bands like Meshuggah haven't helped as they use programmed drums in the studio, albeit samples of their own drummer are in the software but.... I dunno, personally I only find the feel / emotion of a song gets ruined when its too loose, otherwise its all good IMO.
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Re: How many hours a day do you practice?

Post by TmcB »

hamo wrote:Interesting to hear you both mention metal as clinical. Perhaps the modern technical/extreme stuff is, but the reason that I gravitated towards hard rock and heavy metal is the passion in it. It stirs me up. Sure there are elements of precision in someone like Iron Maiden, but it doesn't diminish the passion or the feeling from the music. I tend to find banality in music comes from intent, such as with many pop songs where the intention seems to be to sell rather than to create.
Yeah, I'm referring to the modern technical stuff. I love the passion too, and sometimes that comes out easier from simpler, rawer stuff.
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Re: How many hours a day do you practice?

Post by bender »

TmcB wrote:
hamo wrote:Interesting to hear you both mention metal as clinical. Perhaps the modern technical/extreme stuff is, but the reason that I gravitated towards hard rock and heavy metal is the passion in it. It stirs me up. Sure there are elements of precision in someone like Iron Maiden, but it doesn't diminish the passion or the feeling from the music. I tend to find banality in music comes from intent, such as with many pop songs where the intention seems to be to sell rather than to create.
Yeah, I'm referring to the modern technical stuff. I love the passion too, and sometimes that comes out easier from simpler, rawer stuff.
This. In the same way I love Jazz but hate overplayed Modern Jazz (which I reckon is what most people think of when Jazz is mentioned). I guess what I'm saying is that overthinking an idea runs the risk of diluting that idea. It's not always the case of course. What Nelson George was saying is related to the concept of music becoming less appealing when the mainstream latches onto it and it becomes common and prolific. There's obviously going to be people/bands still doing it right but there'll also be a huge portion of people/bands doing it wrong because they've studied it and missed its fundamental core. That's what he says killed Rhythm and Blues. It's just a theory but one I can relate to, to the point where I base my whole style and practice regime around not thinking too much about what I'm doing.

Also, in metal/heavy rock's defense it's about as far away from the Grove and wild-abandon that inflates my lilo.

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Re: How many hours a day do you practice?

Post by alanp »

Image

I am proof that practice is needed, no matter intentions of rawness, or it will sound like raw crap.
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Re: How many hours a day do you practice?

Post by Gelato »

Apart from band practice, once a week for an hour, I don't really practice at all. I often pick up a guitar, play the same old things I always play when I pick up a guitar (that f'n 3-note-per-string Paul Gilbert lick), get bored, and then watch TV. I do more guitar playing in my head than in real life these days, visualising the fretboard and naming the notes on it, working out modes in different keys etc. I missed that memo where we are meant to think about sex every 7 seconds and I think about modes instead :oops:

I spent 10 hours a day practising guitar between the ages of 14 and 18, so I feel like I have done enough practice for this life time. Unfortunately this theory is very flawed :lol:
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Re: How many hours a day do you practice?

Post by slash-ed »

Dude, based on your playing I'd say that the after-effects of all that practice is still very much evident! :shock:
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Re: How many hours a day do you practice?

Post by Hot_Grits »

Gelato wrote:Apart from band practice, once a week for an hour, I don't really practice at all. I often pick up a guitar, play the same old things I always play when I pick up a guitar (that f'n 3-note-per-string Paul Gilbert lick), get bored, and then watch TV. I do more guitar playing in my head than in real life these days, visualising the fretboard and naming the notes on it, working out modes in different keys etc. I missed that memo where we are meant to think about sex every 7 seconds and I think about modes instead :oops:

I spent 10 hours a day practising guitar between the ages of 14 and 18, so I feel like I have done enough practice for this life time. Unfortunately this theory is very flawed :lol:
In your head will only get you so far. I suggest playing ON your head, like Rudy:

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Re: How many hours a day do you practice?

Post by Gelato »

slash-ed wrote:Dude, based on your playing I'd say that the after-effects of all that practice is still very much evident! :shock:
Ha, thanks man, I actually think the majority of my playing is just muscle memory kicking in. My fingers seem to have some idea what they are doing and I just try to keep my brain out of it all ;)
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Re: How many hours a day do you practice?

Post by Gelato »

Hot_Grits wrote:In your head will only get you so far. I suggest playing ON your head, like Rudy
There's plenty to learn from that for sure. I think I will try that actually, once I get my Yngwie guitar spins sorted.

Extra points for the crowd shouting a bit louder during the less quality note choices in the start of the guitar solo. They went all quiet when he started the tasty legato run. Proof that the punters have good taste in guitar playing, not that post-production saves all...
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Re: How many hours a day do you practice?

Post by lionking »

Gelato wrote: I missed that memo where we are meant to think about sex every 7 seconds
:lol:

I'd be much better if my mind didn't wander toward that....as much. That and the internet. :P

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Re: How many hours a day do you practice?

Post by VERY HEAVY METAL »

I got drunk and passed out on a wood plank floor and my mate said that I was snoring loudly and fretting chords while I lay sleeping. So 6 hours a day jamming to CDs and 2 hours every day to practice finger muscle memory for certain riffs and sometimes 24 hours a day is guitar time.

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Re: How many hours a day do you practice?

Post by Cdog »

this thread made me practice today :shock: i learned a lorian line from my modes book. took 15 minutes... yus!

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