Buying a new amp head

[the_haunted]

Oh and What kind of metal are you playing??
If you're after scooped mids, death metal kind of sound, then an old Marshall is not what you are after. (unless you want to put a distortion in front)
If your looking for 5150 kind of mid heavy sound, then a Marshall may be what you are looking for.
A JCM800 with a SD1 or a TS9 in front = Awesome metal sound. Add a Depth control circuit, and you're away laughing.

[Aquila Rossa]

What is all this rectifier sheit anyway, single, dual and now triple?
Is more rectifiers better?
I'm still waiting for Mesa to release the ... wait for it...Quadruple Rectifier.. it must be better, 4 rectifiers, and metallica use them. wow mesa!

The Rectifier tube converts the High voltage AC to DC, and the more power you draw from the High Voltage line the more rectifier tubes you need to run in parallel.
Single Rectifier (tube) = 50W output stage
Dual Rectifier (tube) = 100W output stage
Triple Rectifier (tube) = 150W output stage

Yeah, I know,
I was just being cheeky and patriotic about British amps.
I grew up in Milton Keynes where they make Marshalls. I have a soft spot for them.

[Capt. Black]

hehehe nicely done AR.

[robnobcorncob]

JCM900 SL-X is a great amp.

However, JCM900s have diode clipping circuits for extra gain don't they? rather than adding an extra tube for another gain stage? (or have I totally lost the plot?)

I wouldn't bother with Bugera to be honest. It'd be like owning a Harley, you buy 3 to keep 1 running. Only the Bugera is slightly less prestigious. Made or distributed by Behringer it's still a Behringer product made in Chinese factory and Behringer have a pretty shit record when it comes to QC and Reliability. Touring or playing in your bedroom shouldn't make a difference when it comes to how reliable your amp is. Obvoiusly some amps will take abuse better than others but if you're only playing your bedroom and it breaks down then something must be really wrong with it right?

And if you do get a Bugera you should retube it immediately, it'll sound way better.

[Aquila Rossa]

This is pretty good info about jcm900 from the gear page. Same info at metroamp and marshallampforum:

There is much confusion regarding the JCM900 and JCM900 SLX models.

JCM900 Models 2500, 2501, 2502 & 2100, 2101 (non SLX) do use a diode bridge for clipping and are not SLX models which did not begin production until 1993.

JCM900 Models 2100SLX & 2500SLX do not use diode clipping at all and instead use additional tube gain stages. Its easily identified with its complement of 5 pre-amp tubes which includes pi

You can find the schematics here-
http://www.drtube.com/marshall.htm

The key with these amps is of course running them hard but IMO the all tube (except for the loop) tone path and not using diode clipping are the best of the 900's and thats only the SLX. I have the EL34 model and its a versatile amp if you pre-determine how to dial it in and find the best speaker for this amp and to be honest this amp was the most tonally difficult in finding "its" tone.

It seems this amp is more speaker type, load, wiring style and cab sensitive meaning, I only like it into a 4x12 @ 16ohms using Series-Parallel wiring with a greenback family speaker and played loud.

Reliability was/is an issue, been through a power tranny and pcb mounted power supply bridge rectifier which took some of the pcb traces with it 10 years ago but since then no problems. Other than that and maybe the smaller OT, overall the design is solid and tonally its a modded JCM800, an 800 with more gain, much more gain.

I dont have a problem getting metal face marshall tones up to modern high gain tones of today with it and its a matter of pre-amp and sensitivity settings which in different ratios sets the amps character.


I think you can pick up a 100watt slx for 500 or 600 today, best bang for the buck and you will be surprised despite the negative hype.

[ash]

Have any of you actually seen a broken Bugera? Or can verify the death of one?

Sounds like a whole lot of idle-internet-forum-speculation-based-on-a-comment-in-a-TM-auction-six-months-ago to me.

I bet most of you bagging them have never even seen or played one in person. Unlike Dan, who has and says its just the sound he's looking for. If there's any reason to stay far away from a Bugera... its the name

[The Scarecrow]

Have any of you actually seen a broken Bugera? Or can verify the death of one?

Sounds like a whole lot of idle-internet-forum-speculation-based-on-a-comment-in-a-TM-auction-six-months-ago to me.

I bet most of you bagging them have never even seen or played one in person. Unlike Dan, who has and says its just the sound he's looking for. If there's any reason to stay far away from a Bugera... its the name

I've played one.... I found it sounded average. Can't comment on reliability, but I do recall that Dr Music (i think it was them) in Taka who is imorting them did state they weren't super recommended for gigging and heavy playing, which raised my eyebrow a bit.

I guess for a bedroom jammer, they'd be fine.

[the_haunted]

SLX are decent amps from memory, kind of hard to dial in tho. You gotta crank gain 2 and turn up gain 1 to taste. the dual reverbs have a lot of op-amp preamp going on, and the MK2 has the diode clipping. I have heard good things about the MK2 amps too. That range gets it's bad name from the Dual Reverb IMO. That one is the worst sounding, and the most popular.

Bugera are probably OK, never played one, but the build quality IS a bit shit really. not the worst I have seen, but not very nice at all. I imagine if you took 'em on the road the amount of pot shafts that would break off, being plastic, would be ridiculous.

The cab could also be the limiting factor here, the VS series Marshall cabs have nasty speakers in 'em.

[DaNextSlash]

Get something second hand. With that price range for metal, 5150, JCM800 as mentioned before. But if you're lucky you can probably get a Single Rec, last one I saw went for $1300.

Just buy that Silver Jubilee before I sell all my gear to get it

[rocklander]

Have any of you actually seen a broken Bugera? Or can verify the death of one?

Sounds like a whole lot of idle-internet-forum-speculation-based-on-a-comment-in-a-TM-auction-six-months-ago to me.

I bet most of you bagging them have never even seen or played one in person. Unlike Dan, who has and says its just the sound he's looking for. If there's any reason to stay far away from a Bugera... its the name

I was merely commenting on the quality of them pots dood. they're those 9mm (I think?) ones that are totally rubbish and the fact that they're on long stalks (not so much in those pics, but I did see some that were a good few cm long - defo not panel mounted). does suggest some notable corner cutting is all.

[Aquila Rossa]

SLX are decent amps from memory, kind of hard to dial in tho. You gotta crank gain 2 and turn up gain 1 to taste. the dual reverbs have a lot of op-amp preamp going on, and the MK2 has the diode clipping. I have heard good things about the MK2 amps too. That range gets it's bad name from the Dual Reverb IMO. That one is the worst sounding, and the most popular.

Bugera are probably OK, never played one, but the build quality IS a bit shit really. not the worst I have seen, but not very nice at all. I imagine if you took 'em on the road the amount of pot shafts that would break off, being plastic, would be ridiculous.

The cab could also be the limiting factor here, the VS series Marshall cabs have nasty speakers in 'em.

I'm finding that the only way to get a really good sound from my DSL is to have the master opened up to 10 so the amp runs more like a non MV Marshall, then crank the pre gain to 7-8, treble to 10, presence to 10.
Everything else sound sounds like thin puss. You gotta more than just "turn it up a bit to get those EL34s working", you have to take the MV out of the picture by running it fully open. (It's still there though unfortunately)
That seems to make the amp really do the bizzo and sound like what you would expect a Marshall to sound like.
Of course, I use a loadbox, so it's practical for me to run my amp this way, but I'm sure my nice Svetlanas won't last last too long, fu<k it, the sound is worth the price of regular retubing!

[The Scarecrow]

I'm finding that the only way to get a really good sound from my DSL is to have the master opened up to 10 so the amp runs more like a non MV Marshall, then crank the pre gain to 7-8, treble to 10, presence to 10.

Your neighbours must LOVE you.

[AmpShop]

My first proper amp was a JCM900 Dual Reverb. Grew out of it/over it pretty quickly. Found myself using them now and then as a supplied backline amp while touring. If any amp defines the word "average", it's that one. Not good, but not horrible. Just "average".

Funny thing about the diode-clipping concern - if you put a pedal such as a TS808/TS9 in front of a JCM800 ....

The SL-X - I traded in my Dual Reverb version on an SL-X, convinced it would be so much better. And for about a week I thought so. There was a thicker, less fizzy gain structure, but after a week or so I actually liked it even less than my Dual Reverb. Then the notorious wimpy-ness of the JCM900 output transformer kicked in in full force and the OT blew (and no, not from operator error). Sat in the shop I bought it from for 3 months, during which time they didn't fix it, but did want to charge me labour time. I ended up selling to my mate in Melbourne for $350 and his local tech re-wound the OT.

Overall, if you want "rock" tones, they're not a bad amp, but for metal, specifically more modern metal, I wouldn't recommend them AT ALL.

[Aquila Rossa]

I'm finding that the only way to get a really good sound from my DSL is to have the master opened up to 10 so the amp runs more like a non MV Marshall, then crank the pre gain to 7-8, treble to 10, presence to 10.

Your neighbours must LOVE you.

They fu<king hate me!!

They like me better now I have a Palmer PDI-03!!

They will hate me all over again when I re-amp the Palmer's line out through a stereo H&H solid state power amp and 2 4x12s, hahahaha!!!

[the_haunted]

Funny thing about the diode-clipping concern - if you put a pedal such as a TS808/TS9 in front of a JCM800 ....

That always made me laugh too. People have 30 pedals on their pedal board and then claim all tube signal path.
Even worse others won't buy an amp with a SS FX loop, when the SS loops are usually superior as far as transparency is concerned.