Custom guitar guys

[darkness]

Exactly. One day I hope to get an Ash custom for the same reason. I'm thinking of either getting a Heilo or ask for a PRS style replica when I have the money... Not sure yet, but something like that

Same thought I had. The earlier Heilos were closer to the PRS shape. They've evolved a bit now, but you can still see the influence.

Example

[Pakehendrix]

Dood. It's not often I get the Optical Illusion in my pants about pickup rings...but those puppies...mmmm-mmMMMMMmmm.

[badmotor]

I concur on the niceness of the pickup rings.

[Jenesis]

Yeah, the rest of it's shit though.

[Tsuken]

One primary reason for going custom: Ash. Seriously. Everything he's made that I've played has felt wonderful - and much better than production guitars I've played.

So I guess that reason boils down to quality - and quality control.

Other reasons are around getting exactly the design and specs I wanted. The fact that it'll be a one-off is also cool - particularly since the (mostly) custom I have already is for my daughter, with her name on it, and the soon-to-be-mine totally custom is for my son. Wouldn't really have been the same if I had just got myself another Ibanez for each of them

[badmotor]

That red flame guitar is hawt.

Lolz.

[Tsuken]

And you can't even see the ghost flames properly in that pic. Like all of Ash's work, it's even better in the wood.

[Lawrence]

am I the only one astounded that a custom instrument built to a higher standard than a production line one is cheaper to buy??

I looked long and hard at the closet thing on the market to what I wanted (ES336 with straight pull headstock)....but it had no trem option....I then priced a custom instrument built in Aus (i didnt know about Ash back then). The Gibbo wasa going to cost $7000. My custom Noyce cost $4500.- best money I ever spent.

I have a Radian - its very good for the money! actually its vey good period! !!! I havent had the joy of playing one of Adrians full builds...but all reports are that they are above the build quality of comparative priced Gibsons and PRS. The same is true of Peter Stephens and a couple of other guys......

So my question becomes....why does anyone still choose to spend in excess of $4k on a production line instrument when they can do better?

[The Scarecrow]

Having played both Darkness & Pakehendrix's guitars, I can also vouch for Ash's attention to detail. I also owned a Radian SG Jr, which is in the hands of another forumite these days. That was a stunning guitar and the only reason I onsold it was due to the fact that I required neck pickup tones for most of the stuff I was doing at the time. That Radian SG Jr did have the best powerchord rock tones I've ever heard though from that single humbucker, which I think Ash wound himself?

About a year ago, I was sorely tempted to get a full Ash custom comissioned - I had this wicked idea for a double cutaway style (think Malcolm Young's Gretsch) axe with three pickups and a built in overdrive or booster unit, something like a MXR Micro Amp, SD Pickup Booster or something similar which you could toggle between pickups. I think Jack White does something similar.

My only problem would be not spending the money during the build time

[mop]

am I the only one astounded that a custom instrument built to a higher standard than a production line one is cheaper to buy??

I looked long and hard at the closet thing on the market to what I wanted (ES336 with straight pull headstock)....but it had no trem option....I then priced a custom instrument built in Aus (i didnt know about Ash back then). The Gibbo wasa going to cost $7000. My custom Noyce cost $4500.- best money I ever spent.

I have a Radian - its very good for the money! actually its vey good period! !!! I havent had the joy of playing one of Adrians full builds...but all reports are that they are above the build quality of comparative priced Gibsons and PRS. The same is true of Peter Stephens and a couple of other guys......

So my question becomes....why does anyone still choose to spend in excess of $4k on a production line instrument when they can do better?

I guess the main drawbacks would be the build time and not knowing exactly how it's going to sound/play at the end of it. Plus a lot people don't know about custom instruments anyway and just go for whatever is in the music shop.

[darkness]

Plus a lot people don't know about custom instruments anyway and just go for whatever is in the music shop.

I also think a lot of people look at the prices of Custom Shop Gibsons and Fenders, and think anything built completely custom from a luthier must cost even more than that.

[sty]

am I the only one astounded that a custom instrument built to a higher standard than a production line one is cheaper to buy??

I looked long and hard at the closet thing on the market to what I wanted (ES336 with straight pull headstock)....but it had no trem option....I then priced a custom instrument built in Aus (i didnt know about Ash back then). The Gibbo wasa going to cost $7000. My custom Noyce cost $4500.- best money I ever spent.

I have a Radian - its very good for the money! actually its vey good period! !!! I havent had the joy of playing one of Adrians full builds...but all reports are that they are above the build quality of comparative priced Gibsons and PRS. The same is true of Peter Stephens and a couple of other guys......

So my question becomes....why does anyone still choose to spend in excess of $4k on a production line instrument when they can do better?

I guess the main drawbacks would be the build time and not knowing exactly how it's going to sound/play at the end of it. Plus a lot people don't know about custom instruments anyway and just go for whatever is in the music shop.

Another very sad consequence of people being unfamiliar with a custom instrument from a relatively unknown luthier (compared to Gibson or PRS) is that the resale value takes a hammering, only due to having a much smaller pool of potential purchasers.

Whereas a Gibson or PRS is much more likely to hold it's value, especially if the original purchaser took the time and trouble to seek out a good one as opposed to a "Friday afternoon special".

So I guess the price difference really is "Brand value" which is incredibly sad as you are really paying for a vacuous notion.

I've got Scarecrow's Radian SG Jnr and it's a fabulous guitar to play, it just feels so "right". It's probably the reason I wouldn't hesitate in the future if I thought I wanted a custom built instrument.

[ChrisR]

You might find the difference in price is more to do with market position and the size of the operation itself than anything else.

(Full-time) Luthiers need to get their instruments out the door to stay cash flow positive. Unless they're in the (I imagine quite rare) position of having massive demand for their work and can't keep up being a one man show then they could easily inflate their prices, but until then they need to make sure they're making sales.

It's got to be hard to make any sort of impact in the marketplace being another luthier in an international crowd of thousands upon thousands. You need to get your work into the hands of as many people as you can while still making a living. If your work is of high quality then word of mouth should drive future demand and in the medium to long term you can increase your price having already 'done the hard yards' financially speaking and put your work in as many of the right hands as possible.

If you know your instruments are of exceptional quality compared to the competition you should be making a couple of sales purely based on that. If those sales aren't within whatever you consider your acceptable range then competing on price is the next step. If you're putting out an above market average quality product, at a lower than market average price you're going to make sales. It's not sustainable in the long-term but it should be an essentially guaranteed way of staying cashflow positive unless you've got a serious P habit on the side.

It's very easy to compete on price when you're a one man operation. You're not paying shareholders, you're not paying staff - you're paying yourself and you alone. The pie doesn't get sliced up.

As always, your mileage may vary.

[ash]

So my question becomes....why does anyone still choose to spend in excess of $4k on a production line instrument when they can do better?

As mentioned already, the wait; try before you buy and resale potential are the main valid reasons.

All of those seem to have some degree of fallacy about them, though. When you take into account that a buyer often has to save up for a while before making a purchase, wait for "just the right one" to come along or order in from overseas, the real time from decision to possession is quite a bit longer than it feels. Probably not 9-12 months, but not five minutes, either.

Try before you buy often only means ten minutes noodling, or if you're talking something fancy, might not even be on the same instrument you'll be ordering in. Trade that off against getting to pick and choose options (especially if you really know what it is you want) and that starts to balance out. Retail guys can tell you how often people try before they buy and still don't like what they bought three weeks later and want a refund or trade-in.

Resale value is highly dependent on what you bought. Take Mop's Tremonti for example. What are they worth new, $1200? And he can't sell his for 1/3 of that price! And yet at least one forum member sold his Ash guitar for the same price he paid for it. I've seen a Radian on TM for more than it cost the guy. And in the States, Gustavssons and Thorns sell used for as much and sometimes more than a new one because of the length of the queue for a new one.

If you order something highly personalised and freaky, all of those factors get worse. Longer wait, more chance of it not being exactly what you had imagined, much lower potential demand on the used market (unless a freak of similar tastes happens along at the right time). That's why I have standard models, to try and speed up the process, increase consistency, and market familiarity. Unfortunately many people get a bit carried away with the customising thing and sell themselves on combinations that are a bad idea or will raise the cost unnecessarily.

[ash]

It's very easy to compete on price when you're a one man operation. You're not paying shareholders, you're not paying staff - you're paying yourself and you alone. The pie doesn't get sliced up.

As always, your mileage may vary.

Mine varies

One-man operations are very inefficient. Equipment and space utilisation is far from optimal, mistakes/illness/other tasks shut down the entire operation, no buying power, no distribution power etc. No-one's getting rich doing this, but it keeps a few people from going insane.