Amp levels at gigs (pub size)

[hudsonsaul]

I'm curious folk, .... what levels do you reach with your amps for pub/club gigs when the amps are all mic'd up and coming out the PA?

I see plenty of folk with some powerful amps playing in bars and am familiar with some of the amps that I know they would shake peoples bones if cranked. So I'm curious, those with amps 40W and up, who gig, do you ever get to push the amp past it's 'halfway' point?

A lot of the amps I see are powerful enough to not need PA-ing, but I guess getting PA'd makes the overall sound 'better' for audiences in bars?

Real keen to see how far you gigging lot get to crank the amps, and your thoughts on it all.

[The Scarecrow]

My experience has always been everything possible gets mic'd and the general rule is to be quieter on stage to get the PA do the work. Don't think I've played a gig in years where I haven't been mic'd up. I find it can be a tough call getting a good mix for me personally as I like having my amp cooking up enough to 'feel' the sound behind me, but still have a decent amount coming through the foldbacks for the surround-sound feel.

Being vocalist as well, I find my vocals are best when I am 'competing' in terms of volume with my amp - I get terribly self conscious and can't hold notes if my vocals are louder than my guitar.

I've never bought an amp specifically being 'better' to gig with, though I have thought about it from time to time and the better range of low-wattage amp compared to the 100w head & cab/100w 2x12 combo I use with one band or the other does make me think of it.

[alanp]

It's not a pub, but when a sound specialist sorted out the system at church, I was told to not bother mic'ing my amp up, and to just turn the volume on my amp up instead (Everything else, including Dad's acoustic guitar, goes through the sound desk.)

[shinenz]

if its an in house pa system, use it an mic/line out everything. I always do, just a better sound in my view

When we do gigs and it's just my PA, my amps have always been loud enough , and usually have run x2 quads, ...... in my current band... x2 combo amps not mic'd up, and left the pa for the drums, ...banjo and vocals. Thats using a mixing desk and a pa together

At end of the day, personal preference, long as you can hear the vocals real clear

[Enigmur]

I've always worked on the idea of getting a good stage volume for the band, and then foldback basically just needs vocals - maybe bass as well for the drummer.
Whenever we did soundcheck we basically got our stage volume right then leave it in the sound guys hands to do the rest. Being too loud on stage just farks with the FOH sound if you have a competent sound guy.

I play an AC30 and it's plenty of noise for any gig I've ever played, if it's not loud enough someone needs to turn down

[dc]

Do what we do, don't mic up.

Sounds great, nice spread of sound, simple, cheap, and the sound is in your hands, not some guy whose idea of good sound might be different from yours.

Goes against conventional wisdom too

[Vince]

I've always had the idea that you work out your volume settings at practice and then reproduce exactly them at gigs.

Playing a pub gig should feel exactly like playing a rehearsal, with the PA being there for vocals and, essentially, to transmit what's happening on the stage to the rest of the room.

The trick, of course, is to rehearse at volumes where you're not deafening each other.

[higainer]

The trick, of course, is to rehearse at volumes where you're not deafening each other.

+1
Pretty sure my mild tinnitus was a direct result of being a lot louder at rehearsals....mainly because there was no vol restrictions.

Pub gig vols were waaaay quieter, pa for vox & kick drum about same level as unmiked amps played at respectable/tolerable levels.

I remember, a gig at the Masonic were the guitarists had a full stack each CRANKED
It was so loud it was actually painful....couldn't find the exit quick enough.

[twistedthoughts]

I turn my amp up just enough to get a good sound. On my 100w head, that's around 2-3 on the MV.

We mic everything. It ensures the best mix out front. We use IEMs so have no need for a good stage mix / volume. It's out front that really counts.

I can't for the life of me understand why a sound tech would advise a guitarist to turn up the volume rather than mic up. We all know how directional / beamy amp cabs can be. Micing is essential if you want a good, consistent mix out front. We run our own PA, it takes an additional 30 secs to chuck a mic on my cab and connect it to the desk.

Audix Cab Grabber + SM57 = simple, efficient set up.

Tip: get a $5 non-standard mic clip for the Cab Grabber as the Shure one makes the mic sit too far forward.

[rickenbackerkid]

I have a 15 watt amp with a HotPlate attenuator. I can get the same tone at every volume from blistering paint to whisper. But I use IEMs, so the amp is usually off stage or onstage and pointing back, and it's turned up to maybe 1/3rd.

[slash-ed]

I've always had the idea that you work out your volume settings at practice and then reproduce exactly them at gigs.

Playing a pub gig should feel exactly like playing a rehearsal, with the PA being there for vocals and, essentially, to transmit what's happening on the stage to the rest of the room.

The trick, of course, is to rehearse at volumes where you're not deafening each other.

I disagree... You can't set your volume balance at practice, and then have it translate through to things like - different room, different crowd conditions, and so on.

And who actually practices with the full foldback setup? (Assuming you're not using IEMs obviously) Cos I never have.

In my experience, everything that can go through the PA should be going through the PA (within reason), and out to FOH. Set your stage volume accordingly.

Unlike Scarecrow, I prefer to have less of my guitar sound (vs voice) coming through the foldbacks... I'm actually the exact opposite from what he said! I hate "fighting" for volume with my voice against other instruments, especially for high range stuff where I have to have quite a bit of control, I like to be able to hear loud and clear what I'm doing so I don't overstrain and fuck up my voice for the rest of the set.

[Vince]

I've always had the idea that you work out your volume settings at practice and then reproduce exactly them at gigs.

Playing a pub gig should feel exactly like playing a rehearsal, with the PA being there for vocals and, essentially, to transmit what's happening on the stage to the rest of the room.

The trick, of course, is to rehearse at volumes where you're not deafening each other.

I disagree... You can't set your volume balance at practice, and then have it translate through to things like - different room, different crowd conditions, and so on.

That's the PA guy's job. You are not in front of the stage, if there's a sound guy then it's not your role to guesstimate what the room will sound like. And if the sound guy comes with the room, then he'll know better than you what the room will sound like when it's full or half full (seeing as it's a Tuesday) and so on.

In reality you, as a band on stage, are playing in a space that's very roughly going to be the same size as a small practice room. If you've got your volumes all sorted out in a practice situation, then it'd be silly to throw it all away when you get to the gig. You're the same guys as always, playing in a similar sized space, why change?

IMO, the PA is there as sound reinforcement, if you're on a big stage then get some foldback happening, by all means. But except for the singer, you shouldn't really need it. If you have a sound setup that works at rehearsals, then use it.

[aliasceiza]

I've always had the idea that you work out your volume settings at practice and then reproduce exactly them at gigs.

Playing a pub gig should feel exactly like playing a rehearsal, with the PA being there for vocals and, essentially, to transmit what's happening on the stage to the rest of the room.

The trick, of course, is to rehearse at volumes where you're not deafening each other. ;)

I disagree... You can't set your volume balance at practice, and then have it translate through to things like - different room, different crowd conditions, and so on.

And who actually practices with the full foldback setup? (Assuming you're not using IEMs obviously) Cos I never have.

In my experience, everything that can go through the PA should be going through the PA (within reason), and out to FOH. Set your stage volume accordingly.

Unlike Scarecrow, I prefer to have less of my guitar sound (vs voice) coming through the foldbacks... I'm actually the exact opposite from what he said! I hate "fighting" for volume with my voice against other instruments, especially for high range stuff where I have to have quite a bit of control, I like to be able to hear loud and clear what I'm doing so I don't overstrain and fuck up my voice for the rest of the set.

Yip, what Ed said, diferent venue/size and stage etc all make everything too different to use practice settings, even EQ, depending on how fussy you are, the trick being to know your gear, and knowing how it will work in different places...at practice, we'd set up in a circle, so we could keep everything at low levels, nothing miced up, and no fold backs, or rather,we used the foldbacks for vocals, so obviously, everything at a gig was completely different, all old hands though, so wasn't too much hassle setting shit up!

And while the 100w stacks and 412 cabs are over kill in any NZ pub I've ever been in, you can't beat the 412 for fatness of sound...it's hard getting a guitar driven sound out of a 112 in a band context!

[MogwaiBoy]

Disagree aswell. Don't know how many times in multiple bands I've been in where a sort of consensus has been reached at practice about volume levels, even to the point of writing down/remember amp volumes etc, with the intention of "translating it to on stage".. and it never, ever works out the way you think it will. Once you get in a bigger or smaller room, the frequencies bounce around and cancel you out, suddenly you can't hear yourself over the PA'd drums and the bass is total mud from where you're standing... you start edge your volume up to compensate and things usually go south from there. It gets worse when the soundguy isn't very helpful either.

Last night I nearly maxed the Special 6 (6 watts Princeton type) into a 100watt 2x12 cab at a jam with a new band and it was beautifully crunchy and touch responsive (play softly for clean, pick heavier for dirt) with the Tele - I was competing with a Wasp VBL (bass amp) and a Holden 50 (guitar amp). I went home smiling and my ears weren't ringing at all. So I'm thinking, if I try that rig at our first show... it might just work and I can crank it and the soundguy/band won't hate me. The 3 watt mode would be a waste of time however.

Sub-10 watts valve should be all good for rock n lols in little pubs, but must be mic'ed. The Bassman50 sounds amazing on full tilt but ohwell...

[Vince]

Well, shit, I dunno. All I can tell you is what I've done heaps of times and has worked for me.