Stereo amp setup, buying advise needed.

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Re: Stereo amp setup, buying advise needed.

Post by Mattallica »


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Re: Stereo amp setup, buying advise needed.

Post by Reg18 »

Slowy wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 5:41 pm Forgive me; I thought Worship music was dotted 8ths and Vox?
It still is mostly!

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Re: Stereo amp setup, buying advise needed.

Post by murky »

I recon they should ditch the stereo idea, and buy 2 x $2000 amps. At least then they’ll have enough for two good quality, good sounding, reliable amps, rather than 4 x entry level sh*t boxes.

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Re: Stereo amp setup, buying advise needed.

Post by WellyBlues »

The answer of course is....Katana

BOSS' Katana's Stereo Expand, is a unique feature that allows you to run two Katana amplifiers at the same time. Linking one Katana to another, with Stereo Expand engaged allows an optimised signal to flow from amp A to amp B allowing some effects to run in a stereo fashion, like our new PAN or STEREO Delay.

Well, ymmv I guess.
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Re: Stereo amp setup, buying advise needed.

Post by Reg18 »

murky wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 6:22 pm I recon they should ditch the stereo idea, and buy 2 x $2000 amps. At least then they’ll have enough for two good quality, good sounding, reliable amps, rather than 4 x entry level sh*t boxes.
I tend to agree. I actually thought the Helix would be just fine but the live engineer hasn’t been happy with the tones overall. Reckons they get lost in the mix compared to real amps. I think getting a couple of decent Deluxe Reverbs would be all they need but they seem pretty keen on getting identical stereo amps for proper stereo delays and reverbs

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Re: Stereo amp setup, buying advise needed.

Post by Mattallica »

Which speakers are in the iso cabs?

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Re: Stereo amp setup, buying advise needed.

Post by Reg18 »

Mattallica wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 6:57 pm Which speakers are in the iso cabs?
V30s

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Re: Stereo amp setup, buying advise needed.

Post by Wairarapajack »

Yeah, the budget is pretty tight for decent heads. If clean is what you need then the little Vox MV50 Clean heads are worth looking at. Only about $350 each. They look toy-like, but I used to own the AC version and they sound pretty great.

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Re: Stereo amp setup, buying advise needed.

Post by MattAnt »

Interesting they are dead set on identical stereo set ups. Ideally in a stereo rig you want some difference in your left/right tone.

You could always get combos and bypass the internal speaker and use the cabs. Opens up the options a bit more.

Big hearty vote for an ac15hw and a deluxe reverb in stereo.
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Re: Stereo amp setup, buying advise needed.

Post by clubhouse »

MattAnt wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 6:39 pm Interesting they are dead set on identical stereo set ups. Ideally in a stereo rig you want some difference in your left/right tone.

You could always get combos and bypass the internal speaker and use the cabs. Opens up the options a bit more.

Big hearty vote for an ac15hw and a deluxe reverb in stereo.
Whathesaid. I downscaled from a live rig of a twin in stereo with a super reverb (dry centre: Jansen Bassman converted to JTM45) to a homer-EL84 12 watt, similar to an AC15, and stereo'ed with the Jansen JTM45 and dry centre 5E3 clone. Stereo wet surround sound, comfort blankie, sweetness with a fist of edge to punch the lushness through the mix.

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Re: Stereo amp setup, buying advise needed.

Post by rickenbackerkid »

I'd lead towards 2x ac15 and 2x Marshall Studio Vintage. Actually to be fair I'd lean towards none of that shit, let guitarist bring their own amps and give the tidy 5+K to a foodbank, but that's me

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Re: Stereo amp setup, buying advise needed.

Post by murky »

Reg18 wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 6:40 pm
murky wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 6:22 pm I recon they should ditch the stereo idea, and buy 2 x $2000 amps. At least then they’ll have enough for two good quality, good sounding, reliable amps, rather than 4 x entry level sh*t boxes.
I tend to agree. I actually thought the Helix would be just fine but the live engineer hasn’t been happy with the tones overall. Reckons they get lost in the mix compared to real amps.

Rant alert....

This is bugging me. I think the engineer needs to get his ears checked. The problem isn't with the current amp setup - it's either the guitarists, or the (cough) engineer.

And seriously - running two stereo guitars, with assume drums, bass, keys, and multiple vocals - no wonder it's getting "lost in the mix" - he needs to scalpel that sh*t.

And the $1000 thing is BS. Take away GST (15%), retail margin (30%), importer/distributer margin (30%), shipping (huge at the moment), and manufacturers margin (30%) (all estimates of course), and you're left with a product that had to cost less than $400 to manufacturer, with materials a fraction of that. Im not convinced something that "cheap" will guarantee better tone, or reliability, over what's already available.....

Rant over.....

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Re: Stereo amp setup, buying advise needed.

Post by clubhouse »

murky wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 9:55 am
Reg18 wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 6:40 pm
murky wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 6:22 pm I recon they should ditch the stereo idea, and buy 2 x $2000 amps. At least then they’ll have enough for two good quality, good sounding, reliable amps, rather than 4 x entry level sh*t boxes.
I tend to agree. I actually thought the Helix would be just fine but the live engineer hasn’t been happy with the tones overall. Reckons they get lost in the mix compared to real amps.

Rant alert....

This is bugging me. I think the engineer needs to get his ears checked. The problem isn't with the current amp setup - it's either the guitarists, or the (cough) engineer.

And seriously - running two stereo guitars, with assume drums, bass, keys, and multiple vocals - no wonder it's getting "lost in the mix" - he needs to scalpel that sh*t.

And the $1000 thing is BS. Take away GST (15%), retail margin (30%), importer/distributer margin (30%), shipping (huge at the moment), and manufacturers margin (30%) (all estimates of course), and you're left with a product that had to cost less than $400 to manufacturer, with materials a fraction of that. Im not convinced something that "cheap" will guarantee better tone, or reliability, over what's already available.....

Rant over.....
Makes sense to me. It's a very sonically cluttered mix, especially live with room reflections, movable baffles (audience/parishioners) and atmospherics to contend with. If the above instruments are in the mix, then man, there's a lot of competing frequency information from guitars, keys, drum elements and parts of the vocal range. Add horns or anything like that on top and things get real busy, fast!

Discreet EQing to individual elements to 'carve out' a frequency range that they can individually sit in will help the definition of the instrument within the mix and keep them from mudding the mid-range frequencies. The desk EQ might start to look pretty nutty but the mix result will be better 'tuned'.

It can be like battling to hear the person speaking next to you in a crowded room of other people talking. They're all operating in a similar frequency range despite the proximity to your ears.

Therefore, yeah, also agree that $$$ spent chasing 'better tone' at that price point is even pertinent as EQ mix massaging may nullify any amps' inherent 'tone' after all. Maybe more inspiring for the performer play through though...but that's not a mix consideration.

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Re: Stereo amp setup, buying advise needed.

Post by H671 »

The biggest problem with setting sound in a church environment is the congregation singing - you have absolutely no control over that. We had a big (for our church) event with 300 plus people and I had trouble even hearing myself play with my amp right next to me.
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Re: Stereo amp setup, buying advise needed.

Post by Reg18 »

Overall I agree with most things said, I’ve had the “discussion” with the sound engineer many times about using a Vox style amp and a Fender in stereo but he is adamant using 2 identical amps sounds better for proper stereo. I also think using digital with IRs is fine and it most likely user knowledge/tone tweaking abilities.

Here’s an example of a Sunday morning mix recently.

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