Stereo amp setup, buying advise needed.

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Re: Stereo amp setup, buying advise needed.

Post by rickenbackerkid »

The biggest issue in that mix is space, probably cause every damn thing is stereo. I'd much rather hear a mono guitar panned to each side.

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Re: Stereo amp setup, buying advise needed.

Post by robthemac »

rickenbackerkid wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 12:48 pm The biggest issue in that mix is space, probably cause every damn thing is stereo. I'd much rather hear a mono guitar panned to each side.
What about an Iridium for either side, feeding left and right signals into a big fuck-off mixer and the house system?
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Re: Stereo amp setup, buying advise needed.

Post by jeremyb »

As a guitarist you tend to dial in a tone that sounds great on its own but often in the mix can disappear... I do find theres something about the compression of tube amps which makes them pop better perhaps by restricting the effective range of frequencies they cover?
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Re: Stereo amp setup, buying advise needed.

Post by clubhouse »

Reg18 wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 11:37 am Overall I agree with most things said, I’ve had the “discussion” with the sound engineer many times about using a Vox style amp and a Fender in stereo but he is adamant using 2 identical amps sounds better for proper stereo. I also think using digital with IRs is fine and it most likely user knowledge/tone tweaking abilities.

Here’s an example of a Sunday morning mix recently.
From a very quick listen the mix sounds pretty good and representative...the usual compressed culprits (drums, bass and voices) are predictably to fore and the acoustic guitar is AWOL but that's ok as it's probably more of a prop that a necessity? The overall dynamic range is compressed to maintain the sense of energy and excitement in the song and performance. The violin player can be heard as a drone alongside the keyboard bed to support the guitar parts that provide the forward momentum. It's a pretty dense mix in the mids...but to be expected with the instrumentation involved. The vocals are nicely forward (which is generically key to this music) and clear and balanced with the BVs.

There's a lot of ambience in the mix...probably generic to the music type to convey emotional content, but it adds to the clutter.

Could be EQed more - sliced and diced, perhaps gated some and compression used a little more judiciously...but if that mix is straight off the live desk, probably not, as it will affect the live sound. Live mixing is way different to a recorded mix.

Personally, I agree with IRs for all the actual difference it'll make. The performers are using in-ears so it's not like they need a backline for monitoring. The SPL levels will be more controllable. Actually agree with another poster that the guitars should be in mono and each panned to a separate side to give them more presence and clarity.

If the engineer is adamant that the answer is in identical stereo amps...who needs the argument. Maybe, because the engineer is going for an epic, stadium type sound he wants more stuff about that reinforces the tangible size of the sound…I’m thinking’
Last edited by clubhouse on Thu Oct 14, 2021 3:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Stereo amp setup, buying advise needed.

Post by Reg18 »

I will say once you hear stereo delays and reverbs on in ears it’s hard to go back to mono! But there are better ways to achieve this than buying 4 of the same amp.
Back on track however, i wonder if there isn’t a perfect solution here. I think they might be pushing to get a better result with cheap amps than the digital alternative

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Re: Stereo amp setup, buying advise needed.

Post by jeremyb »

I reckon if you have to do it, a pair of those origin 20s and a pair of ac15s would be super!
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Re: Stereo amp setup, buying advise needed.

Post by Capt. Black »

My $0.02.

Regarding the video mix, I think Clubhouse summed things up pretty well.

Been following this thread and three things are really bugging me.

1. Speakers in ISO cabs, in-ears to monitor... Why bother with amps at all? An amp sim on an iPad would do the job just as well, surely?
My sister sings professionally and her guitarist uses a a combo amp which is actually a dummy for an iPad set up which sounds amazing. I've recorded them live a few times and as old school as I am, I've never felt his sound lacked anything. The dummy amp is purely for show because some sound guys and people in their audiences can't get their heads around not seeing something familiar on stage. LOL

2. That stage, projection and lighting set up... They reckon there's no budget for decent amps? Seriously? Come on!

3. The backing singers are clapping on the one and the three.

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Re: Stereo amp setup, buying advise needed.

Post by rickenbackerkid »

jeremyb wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 5:19 pm I reckon if you have to do it, a pair of those origin 20s and a pair of ac15s would be super!
NOOO get the mini plexi - I thought it was clearly better sounding than the Origin!

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Re: Stereo amp setup, buying advise needed.

Post by olegmcnoleg »

Capt. Black wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 12:30 pm

3. The backing singers are clapping on the one and the three.
Choked on my tea over that. :-)

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Re: Stereo amp setup, buying advise needed.

Post by Kris »

olegmcnoleg wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 12:51 pm
Capt. Black wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 12:30 pm

3. The backing singers are clapping on the one and the three.
Choked on my tea over that. :-)
+1

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Re: Stereo amp setup, buying advise needed.

Post by MattAnt »

olegmcnoleg wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 12:51 pm
Capt. Black wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 12:30 pm

3. The backing singers are clapping on the one and the three.
Choked on my tea over that. :-)
Yea comment of the thread ha ha
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Re: Stereo amp setup, buying advise needed.

Post by Reg18 »

Capt. Black wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 12:30 pm My $0.02.

Regarding the video mix, I think Clubhouse summed things up pretty well.

Been following this thread and three things are really bugging me.

1. Speakers in ISO cabs, in-ears to monitor... Why bother with amps at all? An amp sim on an iPad would do the job just as well, surely?
My sister sings professionally and her guitarist uses a a combo amp which is actually a dummy for an iPad set up which sounds amazing. I've recorded them live a few times and as old school as I am, I've never felt his sound lacked anything. The dummy amp is purely for show because some sound guys and people in their audiences can't get their heads around not seeing something familiar on stage. LOL

2. That stage, projection and lighting set up... They reckon there's no budget for decent amps? Seriously? Come on!

3. The backing singers are clapping on the one and the three.
Yep I tend to agree, It’s all getting a bit “big corporate business” for me anyway. I got asked to sign a legal document this week in relation to all songs and contributions to songs I have written. I can’t see why a digital rig wouldnt be fine, plenty of international pros use it! Anyway I’m Starting to join the church rant myself and that’s not what I wanted to do so I’ll leave it there.

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Re: Stereo amp setup, buying advise needed.

Post by Capt. Black »

Reg18 wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 1:36 pm
Capt. Black wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 12:30 pm My $0.02.

Regarding the video mix, I think Clubhouse summed things up pretty well.

Been following this thread and three things are really bugging me.

1. Speakers in ISO cabs, in-ears to monitor... Why bother with amps at all? An amp sim on an iPad would do the job just as well, surely?
My sister sings professionally and her guitarist uses a a combo amp which is actually a dummy for an iPad set up which sounds amazing. I've recorded them live a few times and as old school as I am, I've never felt his sound lacked anything. The dummy amp is purely for show because some sound guys and people in their audiences can't get their heads around not seeing something familiar on stage. LOL

2. That stage, projection and lighting set up... They reckon there's no budget for decent amps? Seriously? Come on!

3. The backing singers are clapping on the one and the three.
Yep I tend to agree, It’s all getting a bit “big corporate business” for me anyway. I got asked to sign a legal document this week in relation to all songs and contributions to songs I have written. I can’t see why a digital rig wouldnt be fine, plenty of international pros use it! Anyway I’m Starting to join the church rant myself and that’s not what I wanted to do so I’ll leave it there.
I hear ya, Reg. In all truth I have no problem with spending on gear despite little tangible benefit. Why else would NZG exist? ;)

The whole situation is probably a lot more involved than we can glean here. Although it does read like your sound guy has a lot more sway than he has actual authority. I agree that he seems to be chasing the wrong solution for a problem that he can easily fix with a tweak of his EQ. But hey. Go for it. I't not his money. Hehehe

I'm a bit horrified by the legal agreement aspect. That's a discussion worth having if you're keen to elaborate. What does the "Organisation" asking for specifically?

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Re: Stereo amp setup, buying advise needed.

Post by hamo »

olegmcnoleg wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 12:51 pm
Capt. Black wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 12:30 pm

3. The backing singers are clapping on the one and the three.
Choked on my tea over that. :-)
I wasn't drinking anything at the time, which is lucky, because my monitor and keyboard would be wearing it.
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Re: Stereo amp setup, buying advise needed.

Post by Slowy »

Reg18 wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 11:37 am Overall I agree with most things said, I’ve had the “discussion” with the sound engineer many times about using a Vox style amp and a Fender in stereo but he is adamant using 2 identical amps sounds better for proper stereo. I also think using digital with IRs is fine and it most likely user knowledge/tone tweaking abilities.

Here’s an example of a Sunday morning mix recently.
Nobody should be allowed to look that happy before lunchtime.

At least it had dotted 8ths.
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