Can a different cab affect the gain?

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Can a different cab affect the gain?

Post by Shimmer »

The little 9v Ruby Amp I built recently sounds nice raspy with no headroom through the little Sony stereo speaker I hooked it up to. (As expected).
Plugged into my Laney 2x12 however, the gain goes from clean to 'overdrive' quite well. But when plugged into a Vox BC108, the gain is almost non-existent! Is it common for a cab to have such a big influence. (Admittedly it's a 'toy' amp, but still). Maybe something to do with the speaker sensitivity? (In terms of ohms, both the Laney and Vox are 8ohm. Sony speaker is 6ohm/25W)
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Re: Can a different cab affect the gain?

Post by Molly »

I wouldn't have thought so other than if one cab is less efficient than another it might allow more volume.

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Re: Can a different cab affect the gain?

Post by Bg »

Not the cab per se, I imagine the speakers may react differently though.
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Re: Can a different cab affect the gain?

Post by robthemac »

Agree with both of above. A less efficient speaker will result in more gain at lower volumes. If you're driving the speaker hard enough that the speaker itself is distorting, you'll also get a fuzzy/overdrive sound. It'd have to be a pretty juicy 9V amp to get speaker distortion from a Laney 2x12 though....
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Re: Can a different cab affect the gain?

Post by Shimmer »

robthemac wrote: Mon Apr 11, 2022 9:24 am Agree with both of above. A less efficient speaker will result in more gain at lower volumes. If you're driving the speaker hard enough that the speaker itself is distorting, you'll also get a fuzzy/overdrive sound. It'd have to be a pretty juicy 9V amp to get speaker distortion from a Laney 2x12 though....
Thanks all. That makes sense. Definitely more gain at lower volumes for the little Sony speaker.! I guess the surprise to me was how much 'cleaner' the Vox was compared to the laney. (Neither of which are high end speaker-cabs though!).
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Re: Can a different cab affect the gain?

Post by sizzlingbadger »

Cab impedances? If the output stage of the Ruby is sensitive to load it may clip at different impedances.
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Re: Can a different cab affect the gain?

Post by Miza »

The cab will affect the tone a lot. Think closed back Marshall 4x12 vs open back Fender combo.

Sometimes the tone can change how our ears percieve gain, especially when you introduce more mids.

But yes, a small inefficient speaker will distort for sure!
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Re: Can a different cab affect the gain?

Post by Wairarapajack »

As other have said, more efficient (high sensitivity) speakers give more clean headroom. So if you want a cleaner sound at a given volume, go for a high efficiency/sensitivity speakers. If you want more dirt, go low.

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Re: Can a different cab affect the gain?

Post by MikeC »

Tech alert... "gain" occurs with active components such as valves, transistors, FETs etc. Pickups don't have gain, speakers don't have gain. So assuming the same impedance speaker load (be it a 6", 8 ohm Sony speaker in a box or a 412 8-ohm Marshall cab), with the same guitar, then the amp will begin distorting at exactly the same place (on the volume knob) and in exactly the same way. The number of speakers, the speaker's size, enclosure type & wattage rating will effect the way it sounds to your ear. And besides, everything sounds better through a Marshall 412 :geek:
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Re: Can a different cab affect the gain?

Post by captainfruitbat »

MikeC wrote: Mon Apr 11, 2022 8:47 pm Tech alert... "gain" occurs with active components such as valves, transistors, FETs etc. Pickups don't have gain, speakers don't have gain. So assuming the same impedance speaker load (be it a 6", 8 ohm Sony speaker in a box or a 412 8-ohm Marshall cab), with the same guitar, then the amp will begin distorting at exactly the same place (on the volume knob) and in exactly the same way. The number of speakers, the speaker's size, enclosure type & wattage rating will effect the way it sounds to your ear. And besides, everything sounds better through a Marshall 412 :geek:
All technically correct. But then sometimes when someone says "gain", they are really talking about headroom issues and components being driven into distortion. Which can absolutely happen with a speaker.

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Re: Can a different cab affect the gain?

Post by MikeC »

I'm a techy type - can't help it. "Can a different cab affect the gain"? No. Can a different cab effect the reproduced sound, yes.
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Re: Can a different cab affect the gain?

Post by captainfruitbat »

MikeC wrote: Mon Apr 11, 2022 10:04 pm I'm a techy type - can't help it. "Can a different cab affect the gain"? No. Can a different cab effect the reproduced sound, yes.
Absolutely fair enough. Dan Worrall on YouTube says it best here: https://youtu.be/mytc7i0jm34?t=172

And if you like that, check out his "I won the loudness wars" video.

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Re: Can a different cab affect the gain?

Post by Cdog »

Wot they said, also I have a couple of comments, in addition... :)

1/ Guitar speakers by design are eq'd to roll off the fizz >6kHz so they sound nicer with a distorted amp. HiFi speakers like your Sony let it all through, so they will sound generally nasty with any distortion.

2/ the impedance of the load on your cab will affect the ability of the LM386 power amp to drive it. Higher speaker impedance means less power dissipated. LM386s clip quite musically, I suspect a higher mpedance speaker would get it sounding cleaner. Perhaps you could experiment

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Re: Can a different cab affect the gain?

Post by RectifiedAmps »

It’d be interesting to compare the frequency response curves for each of those speakers. Remember that the rated impedance of a speaker is usually just the impedance at a single frequency (400Hz I think?) - the impedance at all other frequencies is likely to be different for them and each design has a large resonant peak at a different frequency.

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