Stock Gibson Pickups - A potted history

[Molly]

490’s can sound good...need to match with right pots

I recall having an SG with, I'm sure it was, 300k pots.

Out of interest, if a pot's on full is it not effectively bypassed?

[Dharmajester]

My experience has been that all their pu variatons can sound awful when in the wrong guitar and excellent in the right one. A disappointing situation from a top of the line manufacturer but a reality nontheless..

[quyet]

My buddy Josh at Homewrecker pickups told me the most commonly replaced pickups for them are the 490T and R.

That's what I was thinking of. I guess they must be pretty muddy-sounding or something like that?

The opposite on the bridge I heard - too bright and shrill. Gibson's bumph says "... but with a modern edge that delivers a more contemporary tonal range..." so make of that what you will. There's reviews on Sweetwater saying they're the best bridge pup going so who knows? People like to change stuff for the sake of changing stuff I guess, also today I feel we're coming out of a high-output pickup phase and going into more low-medium output for clarity and articulation under high gain. Maybe the 490T was just anachronistic.

Not to hijack the thread but why are modern pickups such high output? The first thing I see people doing is swapping for lower output vintage correct stuff and I agree it sounds way better.

[codedog]

Not to hijack the thread but why are modern pickups such high output? The first thing I see people doing is swapping for lower output vintage correct stuff and I agree it sounds way better.

I hear an implied condition in that statement, i.e. "... it sounds way better for my style/taste".

[GrantB]

The more resistance from the 500k doesn't ;let as much bleed to ground if that makes sense.

[quyet]

Not to hijack the thread but why are modern pickups such high output? The first thing I see people doing is swapping for lower output vintage correct stuff and I agree it sounds way better.

I hear an implied condition in that statement, i.e. "... it sounds way better for my style/taste".

Yeah, it's phrased as my opinion and not a fact

[sizzlingbadger]

I liked the 490R & 490T in my SG. There is a high output (maybe ceramic) 498T ? I think its called that, many don't like it, but is standard in a lot of LP Customs.

[NippleWrestler]

That's what I was thinking of. I guess they must be pretty muddy-sounding or something like that?

The opposite on the bridge I heard - too bright and shrill. Gibson's bumph says "... but with a modern edge that delivers a more contemporary tonal range..." so make of that what you will. There's reviews on Sweetwater saying they're the best bridge pup going so who knows? People like to change stuff for the sake of changing stuff I guess, also today I feel we're coming out of a high-output pickup phase and going into more low-medium output for clarity and articulation under high gain. Maybe the 490T was just anachronistic.

Not to hijack the thread but why are modern pickups such high output? The first thing I see people doing is swapping for lower output vintage correct stuff and I agree it sounds way better.

100% speculation but probably a whole bunch of things.

Technology being a main reason, and taste/trends being another - wire manufacturing to thinner diameters than previously possible (meaning more winds to a coil), magnet tech, ceramic magnets being cheap (1/3 the price of alnico for same strength magnet), alnico becoming scarce in the 60s so manufacturers switched to ceramic from the 70s onwards.

'Guitar Music' off the 80s, 90s, and 2000s had gain steadily increasing as amp/circuit technology becomes better and maybe the public's ears became attuned to the sound of a distorted guitar. Players at home want that sound easily, a high output pickup gets more juice out of your gear whatever it may be. If you don't play cleans or low gain, then get a monster pickup and you'll have a beefy gain sound.

But, here in 2021 I think that's shifting. Things like SMT technology, micro controllers, digital gear etc mean getting a massive drive sound is much easier so you don't need a huge pickup to get there. Of course, tight compressed chuggy metal riffs will always be a thing and be catered for, but a lot of modern heavy music (Periphery, Animals as Leaders, Architects etc) is a mix of super duper ultra clean, and razor sharp heavy riffs where clarity and note separation is important. That's when you need a low output pickup. You can make a low output pup sound more gainy, but you can't really clean up a higher output pup.

Somewhere in that ball of word salad is some kind of answer.

[Molly]

The opposite on the bridge I heard - too bright and shrill. Gibson's bumph says "... but with a modern edge that delivers a more contemporary tonal range..." so make of that what you will. There's reviews on Sweetwater saying they're the best bridge pup going so who knows? People like to change stuff for the sake of changing stuff I guess, also today I feel we're coming out of a high-output pickup phase and going into more low-medium output for clarity and articulation under high gain. Maybe the 490T was just anachronistic.

Not to hijack the thread but why are modern pickups such high output? The first thing I see people doing is swapping for lower output vintage correct stuff and I agree it sounds way better.

100% speculation but probably a whole bunch of things.

Technology being a main reason, and taste/trends being another - wire manufacturing to thinner diameters than previously possible (meaning more winds to a coil), magnet tech, ceramic magnets being cheap (1/3 the price of alnico for same strength magnet), alnico becoming scarce in the 60s so manufacturers switched to ceramic from the 70s onwards.

'Guitar Music' off the 80s, 90s, and 2000s had gain steadily increasing as amp/circuit technology becomes better and maybe the public's ears became attuned to the sound of a distorted guitar. Players at home want that sound easily, a high output pickup gets more juice out of your gear whatever it may be. If you don't play cleans or low gain, then get a monster pickup and you'll have a beefy gain sound.

But, here in 2021 I think that's shifting. Things like SMT technology, micro controllers, digital gear etc mean getting a massive drive sound is much easier so you don't need a huge pickup to get there. Of course, tight compressed chuggy metal riffs will always be a thing and be catered for, but a lot of modern heavy music (Periphery, Animals as Leaders, Architects etc) is a mix of super duper ultra clean, and razor sharp heavy riffs where clarity and note separation is important. That's when you need a low output pickup. You can make a low output pup sound more gainy, but you can't really clean up a higher output pup.

Somewhere in that ball of word salad is some kind of answer.

I've linked this before but it's great if you haven't seen it. In the video he says he likes lower to mid output pickups because he feels more of the guitar itself comes through. I'd tend to agree with that. Back when everything I owned had an EMG81 in the bridge I reckon all my guitars sounded much the same. Well, it was a long time ago but I do recall thinking that the guitar had become kind of anonymous. Admittedly I was also using much more gain back then so that was probably a factor too.

The guitar in this video is a Gil Yaron.

[olegmcnoleg]

490’s can sound good...need to match with right pots

True dat. I have 490s in my LP DC, and they really work well. Plenty of warmth and plenty of sparkle too.

[quyet]

Players at home want that sound easily, a high output pickup gets more juice out of your gear whatever it may be.

But, here in 2021 I think that's shifting.

Thanks for the reply. Yeah, seems you are spot on here.

I also think the guitar renaissance among zoomers on instagram and the rest on youtube is giving everyone's ears a bit more nuance

[Mattallica]

I still think about the zebra 61 pickups I put in an epiphone studio to brighten it up and then flicked it on. Dumb move. They were cool pickups and deserved better. A5 scatterwound coils and one coil over wound for deliberate mismatch. You could get some cool summing options with those on a super switch. I was a rookie back then but I recall twangy/snappy and bright

All that sounds like my cuppa tea. Especially if it's unpotted.

They aren't a high end gibson pickup so most likely potted. Mine came from an SGJ of all things. Should have kept them in there. Great guitar also. However it was the start of my HBP90 journey so out they came...

[GrantB]

The more resistance from the 500k doesn't ;let as much bleed to ground if that makes sense.

Sorry - that was brief....so, on full, a volume pot still provides resistance - that rating is at wide open. Plug a pickup into an output jack direct and hear the variance. So, think if it as trying to balance how much signal and upper frequencies you want stop going to ground, and find their way to your amp.

Man this is hard to describe. Anyway...500K pots for those 490 pickups are what's required but Gibson went through some sort of weird phase of selling most with 300K pots. This can deliver a mud tone, especially on the neck p/up. 500K will keep more going to the amp and the pickup will sound a little louder and brighter.

Hope this makes sense. Someone smarter than me please decipher this into more betterer.

[murky]

My experience has been that all their pu variatons can sound awful when in the wrong guitar and excellent in the right one. A disappointing situation from a top of the line manufacturer but a reality nontheless..

+1.

I’m starting to think that a lot of modern pickups have too much bass. Everyone winds “fat” at the expense of mids (~600k).

[Bg]

Changed the strings on my '03 LP Classic last night and took a peek at the pickups. Made me wonder if anybody knows what pickups they've used over the years and what their characteristics are thought to be? Are there too many for that to be realistic?

This is what's in my '03 Classic.


PAF.JPG

They're definitely not potted.







Couldn't be arsed reading the rest of the thread, did anyone do that joke before me?