Click track: "Feel" versus In-time

[sopachrga]

At a recent jam, we were discussing the virtues of a band practicing to a click track.
I'm all for this, I like how it keeps thing consistent and helps build a good memory (and muscle memory) of the tempo of the track.
A couple of others there quickly remarked that they don't like it, because it "ruins feel" within the song.

I disagreed stating that confusing being in time for lacking feel was a big mistake. I think you can still push the beat or sit back against it etc with out losing feel while using a click track. It certainly shouldn't affect dynamics in any way.

What does everyone else think about it, Does it harm "feel" or is that a cop out?

Further details: I'm referring to a mapped click track, so it takes in to account intentional tempo changes for different parts of the song.
Also, the click is only provided to the drummer (I guess this is possibly another area for debate).

[Slowy]

I'm sure I read somewhere that the only thing in Metallica's drummer's in ear monitor was a click track.
It would probably work well for you guys with your complex riffage.

I've never used a click track but I have used canned drums and I hate them. They are to music what Chesdale is to cheese.
However this might say more about my personal limitations than anything else.

[sopachrga]

I've never used a click track but I have used canned drums and I hate them. They are to music what Chesdale is to cheese.
However this might say more about my personal limitations than anything else.

Haha, that's probably more to do with how artificial sampled drums can sound.

[slash-ed]

If it works for the drummer, and he's the only who hears it, I don't see how it can be a bad thing for the rest of the band.

I think it really depends on the genre of music as well. Obviously if you're in an old school rock band you'd probably want a bit more freedom to stray from a click spontaneously, but if you're in a tight metal band a click sounds like a great (almost compulsory) idea.

[Vince]

I disagreed stating that confusing being in time for lacking feel was a big mistake. I think you can still push the beat or sit back against it etc with out losing feel while using a click track. It certainly shouldn't affect dynamics in any way.

Well, there ARE little things. A lot of drummers will speed up a tiny bit as they approach The Big Fill before the chorus. I think that can add a little excitement for the listener though I'd bet most listeners wouldn't realise it's happening. But yeah, you really should be able to play a whole song at a constant tempo though, for some reason, a lot of people confuse loudness with tempo.

[The Scarecrow]

I'm a 'vibe' player. I've tried playing to a click, and I find it too sterile. That having been said, I've seen clicks used to produce some epically tight songs. All comes down to what works for the song, and the people playing it.

[sopachrga]

Would be interesting to see the opinion of someone else who has spent a lot of time playing to clicks.
I know when I started using clicks it took a while until I could relax with it and not feel like I had to hit every click.

I can't see any reason why it should make things sound too sterile, the click is only a guide, not a set in stone "you must play your note here" rule.

I'm definitely not talking about 'gridding' everything up in a DAW.

[cholera]

I only used a click once, and that was playing drums, but at a stupidly slow tempo. Without the click there was no way I could have kept that slow-natural tendency to speed up (like any drummer I guess). I certainly don't think it makes the music sterile, though the drummer may well take some getting use to it. I certainly found it really hard to concentrate on the song when I was trying to listen to the click.
Agreed RE the feel thing though. Feel is not the same as time. That to me sounds like your bandmates are trying their best to stay "traditional" is all...not that there is anything wrong with that either.

[The Scarecrow]

I can't see any reason why it should make things sound too sterile, the click is only a guide, not a set in stone "you must play your note here" rule.

Agree... but getting some producers/engineers to see that is a bit of a mission...

[sopachrga]

Keep in mind, I'm talking about playing live here. With the click being fed to the drummer only.
So we are looking at preventing tempo variation, not making sure every note is bang on.

[The Scarecrow]

Ah right, that's a different bag then I guess. No experience with click'd drummers live.

[jeremyb]

I kinda thought a click live was really only used if you're using some kind of automation, like triggered samples etc? I kinda reckon live no one cares, unless its glaringly obvious *cough* Looking at you Lars *cough*

[stuu]

I guess the real question is "how bad is your tempo variation?"

ie: are you guys having real-world performance issues, or is it just a case of being OCD?

[rickenbackerkid]

I'm a 'vibe' player. I've tried playing to a click, and I find it too sterile.

I think this is the standard experience when you start playing to a click, but you can make it really free and full of feeling by playing on the front or back of the click. Have you heard Fat Freddy's Drop?

Their tracks are built on a drum loop, basically like a click, it's locked to a certain tempo, and on it's own it has almost no feel. The feel and groove of the band comes from the musos playing around that click.

So I don't buy the opinion that click = a lack of groove or feel. But playing with feeling to a click track is a hard skill to learn.

[sopachrga]

That is exactly my thoughts on it to. Glad I'm not on my own. haha