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I have an interesting little game for you.

On my latest record I used a mix of all analogue, valve-amps but I even used a little gentle digital modelling (SHOCK, HORROR!) in a few (at least two) places.

Your task (you of course HAVE the album!?) is to sniff the air around the songs and tell me which tracks feature the digi-models and which are old-fashioned mic'ed up Princeton Reverb and Headstrong Lil' King S?

Go.

I've played this game before, except they were live behind a stage curtain and even the cork-sniffers who "wouldn't play through a solidstate amp under any conditions", got most of them wrong. These days, modelling is pretty damn good.

These days, modelling is pretty damn good.

Yip

Valve amps are on the way out! Very slowly...

jvpp wrote:

These days, modelling is pretty damn good.

Yip

Valve amps are on the way out! Very slowly...

As someone who plays live regularly and works in Music retail, you are incorrect sorry.

Modelling is getting better and better and for practising and recording starting to become more commonplace, but there will always be demand for valve stuff

jvpp wrote:

These days, modelling is pretty damn good.

Yip

Valve amps are on the way out! Very slowly...

just like vinyl right

I would never pretend to be able to tell the difference in sound between a valve amp and a digital modeller, especially in a recording. The difference, imo, isn't really in the sound, but in the feel, particularly in how a valve amp responds dynamically to attack on the strings, and that is going to affect how you play. People who play with varying levels of attack expect the amp to respond differently when the strike lightly and then hard - call it "bloom" or whatever you like - but there is a certain (perhaps unquantifiable) "thing" that happens when electrons are excited within the confines of a valve that just can't be replicated in anything other than a valve. If a player's dynamic attack never varies (combined especially with really high output pickups), then he or she can probably use either a SS/modeller or a valve amp and never know or "feel" the difference.

In any case, the OP's recording sounds great.

Sustainz wrote:I would never pretend to be able to tell the difference in sound between a valve amp and a digital modeller, especially in a recording. The difference, imo, isn't really in the sound, but in the feel, particularly in how a valve amp responds dynamically to attack on the strings, and that is going to affect how you play. People who play with varying levels of attack expect the amp to respond differently when the strike lightly and then hard - call it "bloom" or whatever you like - but there is a certain (perhaps unquantifiable) "thing" that happens when electrons are excited within the confines of a valve that just can't be replicated in anything other than a valve. If a player's dynamic attack never varies (combined especially with really high output pickups), then he or she can probably use either a SS/modeller or a valve amp and never know or "feel" the difference.

In any case, the OP's recording sounds great.

Yeah I used a lot of software plugin amp modelling for overdubs on our last album. In the mix you REALLY can't tell IMO.
It helps to have one or two real recorded amps with a little bit of room sound to "real" the sound up a bit

I wouldn't be able to hear the difference. In the context of a mix, an excellent digital tone can work brilliantly. Modeling is getting fantastic. I was complemented on my 'Amazing John Mayer blues tone' after my gig friday night - Strat into Tech 21 Blonde. Nothing amazing about that, just good gear that works and sounds good

At the risk of keeping another one of these “tubes vs modeller’s” threads alive any longer than it needs to be and contributing to the “aww shux, not this shit again!”, ill throw caution to the wind and add my 2c for anyone who’s remotely interested or cares! Lol

I thought it was commonly accepted at this point that tone and feel etc. are in the ears of the beholder? It’s all subjective. Making bold statements like “can't be replicated in anything other than a valve” comes off as a bit ignorant really and just sounds like someone adding their own opinion into the mix as “fact”. These days I take every statement I read on the interwebz with a pinch of salt. Nothing is “fact” unless scientifically proven to be, or, for my own personal subjective taste, fits the purpose and therefore my own perception becomes my reality.

Fwiw, I have owned and played through countless amps over the years. Everything from basic solid state to high end “booteek” tube amps. Some of them sounded amaze and some of them didn’t, to me anyway, yet some of the amps I didn’t like were the favourites of other players…..funny that!

In more recent years I have experimented more in the digital modeller space. Owning what a lot of people consider the “booteek” equivalent of the digital world – the Axe Fx II I can say that for me I miss nothing about the sound and feel of tube amps. It’s all there for me in the Axe Fx. That’s not to say I don’t miss tube amps…..I do sometimes yearn for their simplicity but then I turn on the Axe Fx, don’t have to wait for the tubes to warm up or cool down or wear out and I can plug in headphones or run the volume super low for playing while bubba is asleep and get 100% consistent tone every time at any volume. I can also use it as an interface to record riffs with ease while I am messing around, and it is a whole bunch of fun creating new sounds and also playing through other peoples presets.

As far as “sound & feel” are concerned I have personally experienced more consistency and fun playing from the Axe Fx than I did with any of my tube amps. I suppose a lot of that has to do with the fact that at this point in time it works for me. In the future who knows I may go back to a small tube head and some pedals for simplicity’s sake but it won’t be because I miss the “tone and feel” of a tube amp. In my personal opinion in this day and age with gear like the Axe Fx and KPA that is just nonsense. Anyone who swears that either of them sound better or worse than the other has obviously never spent any or enough time with each or both and is just injecting their own opinion or refuses to admit that a digital device can sound as good as an analogue one.

I like both, I just take issue with people who make broad statements like “they will never be as good” or “cant be replicated” etc. Its just un-educated nonsense.

2c /rant

Having also owned an AFX I have to agree that the feel is there for me, it has some other shortcomings but the feel is not one of them as I experienced it.

I think that once confronted with say a 'holy grail' type tube amp you still have to coax the dynamic out of it with human touch before you'll get the good stuff. After that you'll sound good on just about anything.
Me I'll take the red hot vacuum filament every time.

Sadly my little 10W Blackstar ID Core practice amp gets more use than my AC15, but for headphone practice which is the bulk of what I do it excels, for those times when I get to crank the AC15 tho' it's magic...

Kloppsta wrote:I thought it was commonly accepted at this point that tone and feel etc. are in the ears of the beholder? It’s all subjective. Making bold statements like “can't be replicated in anything other than a valve” comes off as a bit ignorant really and just sounds like someone adding their own opinion into the mix as “fact”.

Anything I say is "in my humble fucking opinion;" sorry if the "imo" in my post wasn't clear enough. If you can get the feel from your modeller, more power to you. I'm not knocking it. I'm speaking strictly from my personal preference, perspective, and experience which means no more or less to you than yours does to me.

As for my statement about "can't be replicated in anything other than a valve" it has to do with the way the input signal is clipped in a vacuum tube (soft or asymmetrically) vs a chip or a transistor (hard or "all or nothing"). They physically don't respond the same way and it has to do with even order harmonics vs odd order harmonics and attack transients. The only subjective thing about that phenomenon is whether an individual player in their own particular playing situation can feel it or whether he or she simply doesn't care.

Sustainz wrote:As for my statement about "can't be replicated in anything other than a valve" it has to do with the way the input signal is clipped in a vacuum tube (soft or asymmetrically) vs a chip or a transistor (hard or "all or nothing"). They physically don't respond the same way and it has to do with even order harmonics vs odd order harmonics and attack transients. The only subjective thing about that phenomenon is whether an individual player in their own particular playing situation can feel it or whether he or she simply doesn't care.

all gravy man! im not here to fuck spiders i genuinely did miss the "imo" in your post, but my post wasnt directed at you really. i just see so many posts from people all over the net from people who swear categorically that moddelers dont and never will sound or feel as good as the "real thing" and then you ask them what their experience in the digital realm is, to which their answer is "Oh i played through my mates POD and it sucked ballz compared to my Bogner!" or they will say "oh i jammed through a Kemper or Axe Fx once, in a store and it didnt blow me away".....well yeah.....so much could effect their experience in that enviroment and the same goes for testing amps in store etc.

anyway.....apologies if my post came off as a bit finger pointy....its different strokes for different folks aye and i respect your opinion on the matter.

Didn't sound as good as my bogner