Sabbath Bloody Sabbath wrote:I don't care who you are if you got a Samick going into some cheap Ashton you ain't going to have good tone, you may nail whatever you're playing and put on a great show but that's about all.
I'm going to call you out here slightly and say that this is only true with certain styles of music. A samick into an Ashton amp will usually sound shit yes, but there are some artists who really make shitty gear work for them and have it as an integral part of their sound. I'm a big fan of the Eagles of Death Metal, I don't think that their stand alone tone is all that great for the most part, but in the context of their music it's perfect. It's awesome, in fact. I'm pretty sure I've seen them using small Peavey practice amps (like, 10 watt) for gigs. I remember reading an article where Jessie Hughes said something to the effect he can't stand big name fany amps etc, since it's all about the music and show. Another song that springs to mind is 'Jesus I was evil' by Darcy Clay; fucking awful tone but man it's a rocking song and you wouldn't want it any other way (as proven by that shitty Aussie band that covered it).
Sabbath Bloody Sabbath wrote:I don't care who you are if you got a Samick going into some cheap Ashton you ain't going to have good tone, you may nail whatever you're playing and put on a great show but that's about all.
I'm going to call you out here slightly and say that this is only true with certain styles of music. A samick into an Ashton amp will usually sound shit yes, but there are some artists who really make shitty gear work for them and have it as an integral part of their sound. I'm a big fan of the Eagles of Death Metal, I don't think that their stand alone tone is all that great for the most part, but in the context of their music it's perfect. It's awesome, in fact. I'm pretty sure I've seen them using small Peavey practice amps (like, 10 watt) for gigs. I remember reading an article where Jessie Hughes said something to the effect he can't stand big name fany amps etc, since it's all about the music and show. Another song that springs to mind is 'Jesus I was evil' by Darcy Clay; fucking awful tone but man it's a rocking song and you wouldn't want it any other way (as proven by that shitty Aussie band that covered it).
This.
I've played with guys who use average to borderline horrible gear and still get a great sound. One of the coolest rigs I heard was the bass player from one of my old bands who used a Vester P-bass copy into a terribly beaten up Peavey pre-amp and a PA power amp. Sounded mean with most cabs and cranked the fuck out of a lot of venues. One guitarist I played with uses an Ashton guitar exlusively, into a Park solid-state amp and some pretty crappy Boss-copy FX. He is one of the most toneful players I know and always manages to sound great in whatever setting he is in.
My current lead guitarist uses a Valvestate combo which he has to run pretty hard to keep up with my Rivera. I've only ever heard these sound like shit (the Valvestate), but he coaxes some fantastic lead tones out of it with just that and a Hotcake used sparingly.
By comparison, I've seen some wonderfully expensive and stunning gear used to make some horrific noises when it shouldn't be possible to fuck up tried and true combinations like a LP > Marshall stack or Strat > Twin combo.
Yep. Also the last time I saw Battle Circus live (a couple of years ago now) he was getting some pretty amazing tones out of his small Marshall Valvestate. I remember also when a mate of mine made my (at the time) Squire Strat > DS-1 > Roland Cube15 setup sound awesome in my front lounge. It struck me in a way that made me think "shit it really is in the playing and I have a long way to go".
Sabbath Bloody Sabbath wrote:I don't care who you are if you got a Samick going into some cheap Ashton you ain't going to have good tone, you may nail whatever you're playing and put on a great show but that's about all.
I'm going to call you out here slightly and say that this is only true with certain styles of music. A samick into an Ashton amp will usually sound shit yes, but there are some artists who really make shitty gear work for them and have it as an integral part of their sound. I'm a big fan of the Eagles of Death Metal, I don't think that their stand alone tone is all that great for the most part, but in the context of their music it's perfect. It's awesome, in fact. I'm pretty sure I've seen them using small Peavey practice amps (like, 10 watt) for gigs. I remember reading an article where Jessie Hughes said something to the effect he can't stand big name fany amps etc, since it's all about the music and show. Another song that springs to mind is 'Jesus I was evil' by Darcy Clay; fucking awful tone but man it's a rocking song and you wouldn't want it any other way (as proven by that shitty Aussie band that covered it).
This.
I've played with guys who use average to borderline horrible gear and still get a great sound. One of the coolest rigs I heard was the bass player from one of my old bands who used a Vester P-bass copy into a terribly beaten up Peavey pre-amp and a PA power amp. Sounded mean with most cabs and cranked the fuck out of a lot of venues. One guitarist I played with uses an Ashton guitar exlusively, into a Park solid-state amp and some pretty crappy Boss-copy FX. He is one of the most toneful players I know and always manages to sound great in whatever setting he is in.
My current lead guitarist uses a Valvestate combo which he has to run pretty hard to keep up with my Rivera. I've only ever heard these sound like shit (the Valvestate), but he coaxes some fantastic lead tones out of it with just that and a Hotcake used sparingly.
By comparison, I've seen some wonderfully expensive and stunning gear used to make some horrific noises when it shouldn't be possible to fuck up tried and true combinations like a LP > Marshall stack or Strat > Twin combo.
this.
Guy in a band down here plays with an ashton gat and digitech RP50 into whatever amp is at the venue and he plays some insanely tasty sounding licks, gets wicked funk tones, and can shred circles around me (not that I try to shred but that's beside the point)
BG wrote:I don't care if you worship god or you worship goats cocks
Sabbath Bloody Sabbath wrote:I don't care who you are if you got a Samick going into some cheap Ashton you ain't going to have good tone, you may nail whatever you're playing and put on a great show but that's about all.
I'm going to call you out here slightly and say that this is only true with certain styles of music. A samick into an Ashton amp will usually sound shit yes, but there are some artists who really make shitty gear work for them and have it as an integral part of their sound. I'm a big fan of the Eagles of Death Metal, I don't think that their stand alone tone is all that great for the most part, but in the context of their music it's perfect. It's awesome, in fact. I'm pretty sure I've seen them using small Peavey practice amps (like, 10 watt) for gigs. I remember reading an article where Jessie Hughes said something to the effect he can't stand big name fany amps etc, since it's all about the music and show. Another song that springs to mind is 'Jesus I was evil' by Darcy Clay; fucking awful tone but man it's a rocking song and you wouldn't want it any other way (as proven by that shitty Aussie band that covered it).
I understand what you're saying however that's why I said you 'may nail the song or give a great show' as well. I also appreciate that a great player can make a given set up sound better than an average player but does that make it good tone? I'm thinking you were more impressed with how much more he got out of it rather than the definitive sound.
I totally agree that a spurious tone can work in a given context i.e EODM and even Led Zeppellin etc. IMO Jimmy's tone by itself on occasion isn't shit hot for the gear he's got and playing prowess, however it just works in the band context and wouldn't have it any other way. That's why especially with tone arguments you almost have to compare it out of context (if you get me) to judge the subjective issue of tone more objectively, otherwise you get to the point where there is no such thing as 'good' or 'bad' tone which is a circular argument I'm not going to enter into. Because there is such things as weedy tone, ice pick highs etc and if you can make that work in your band kudos to you but that's a different argument all together imo.
"You give me a fucking kazoo and I'll write you a good song." - Billy Corgan
I agree we're treading close to circular argument territory, and I know where you're coming from. I think at the end of the day we can all pretty much agree on what constitutes a beautiful clean tone or an awesome big fuck off wound up gain tone. I do believe there exists that level of common opinion (obviously with a margin of error thrown in). However, and without getting into a circular argument, the context of the tone also contributes to the tone overall, and I believe it's a factor we shouldn't be hasty in dismissing.
machina wrote:I agree we're treading close to circular argument territory, and I know where you're coming from. I think at the end of the day we can all pretty much agree on what constitutes a beautiful clean tone or an awesome big fuck off wound up gain tone. I do believe there exists that level of common opinion (obviously with a margin of error thrown in). However, and without getting into a circular argument, the context of the tone also contributes to the tone overall, and I believe it's a factor we shouldn't be hasty in dismissing.
And don't forget the meek. Have a hell of a time, they do.
jeremyb wrote: Is it true about the bum sex before marriage thing being ok?
machina wrote:I agree we're treading close to circular argument territory, and I know where you're coming from. I think at the end of the day we can all pretty much agree on what constitutes a beautiful clean tone or an awesome big fuck off wound up gain tone. I do believe there exists that level of common opinion (obviously with a margin of error thrown in). However, and without getting into a circular argument, the context of the tone also contributes to the tone overall, and I believe it's a factor we shouldn't be hasty in dismissing.
And don't forget the meek. Have a hell of a time, they do.
the one I used on my dog this morning when he tried to walk on the road in front of the CEO as he was driving in...
Some Bozo wrote:dogs represent the qualities we like to see in a friend, and cats represent the qualites we'd like to be able to get away with in ourselves
Tone/sounds are totally subjective. For instance, my likes/dislikes in tone/sounds are (predictably) bound to be different from yours. Some examples:
I loathe the sound of American V8s
I loathe the sound of Subarus
I loathe the sound of Harley Davidsons
I loathe the sound of a two-stroke engine
I loathe every tone of every metal band I've ever heard, including my son's band (sorry son, it all sounds the same to me and I simply don't hear anything other than crap noise there)
I love the sound of a straight six car engine
I love the tone of the distortion in Steely Dan's (named after a strap-on dildo in case you didn't know) Reeling in the Years
I love BB KIng's tone, yet he's basically a guitar/lead/amp player
I love the sound of a soulful sax, such as that used in 'Us & Them'
I love the sound of a good blues harp, when played by an expert
I love the roar of the sea (the only sound I hear every night from my home)
I love subtle guitar effects pedals and loathe unsubtle guitar effects
I don't differentiate between single coil or humbuckers when it comes to tone. Either (to me) is capable of producing beautiful or crap tones - dependant largely upon the player's settings.
Finally - all of the above may change due to the largest factor of them all - context.
He hit a chord that rocked the spinet and disappeared into the infinite ...
