Home recording (with current tech/equipment as at early 2019)
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- Conway
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Home recording (with current tech/equipment as at early 2019)
So, I thought this year might be time to try to improve my playing and singing by recording myself and listening back to find things I need to work on. Which may be a good time to explore the options available and the technology and equipment that exists as of today for home recording.
My playing setup is as follows:
Guitar > pedals > drum machine/looper > tube amp > cab
(this could be adapted to run drum loops > vocal PA 2nd channel, and have guitar/pedals only into amp)
Vocal mic > vocal PA
Starting point: as I see it, the methodology available is:
(a) a basic recording of the room via (i)phone - perhaps improved by a plug-in mic - or a recording device, eg. Zoom stereo digital recorder.
(b) mic up guitar amp and vocal PA and run via audio interface into computer DAW program. For me, I have the end point, being a MacBook Pro and Logic Pro X, but I don't have an interface. The interface is something I have questions about, but I'll bring those in later in a further post. At this stage, I'd just like to establish the method before looking at the equipment/technology.
(c) as above, but rather than mic up amps, take direct line from between guitar amp and cab (various box of tricks can achieve this) and take line out from vocal PA. I think the line out from my vocal PA is pre EQ and reverb(?).
(d) run guitar/pedals, mic and drums/loops directly into separate channels on audio interface, to computer DAW. But how do you get the live playing feel? Can you use the interface to throughput each channel on to the usual amp and PA, so it sounds like usual? I don't like headphones and it would mean singing out loud with nothing else being audible. This would also rely on the DAW to add amp simulation. Alternatively, output everything from DAW (incl. amp simulation) to vocal PA?
Are there any other methods? Thoughts, suggestions, questions? What are the pros and cons of each method?
I can foresee this being a huge rabbit hole, in particular when it comes to the interface - I have lots of questions on that, but one step at a time...
Thanks guys.
My playing setup is as follows:
Guitar > pedals > drum machine/looper > tube amp > cab
(this could be adapted to run drum loops > vocal PA 2nd channel, and have guitar/pedals only into amp)
Vocal mic > vocal PA
Starting point: as I see it, the methodology available is:
(a) a basic recording of the room via (i)phone - perhaps improved by a plug-in mic - or a recording device, eg. Zoom stereo digital recorder.
(b) mic up guitar amp and vocal PA and run via audio interface into computer DAW program. For me, I have the end point, being a MacBook Pro and Logic Pro X, but I don't have an interface. The interface is something I have questions about, but I'll bring those in later in a further post. At this stage, I'd just like to establish the method before looking at the equipment/technology.
(c) as above, but rather than mic up amps, take direct line from between guitar amp and cab (various box of tricks can achieve this) and take line out from vocal PA. I think the line out from my vocal PA is pre EQ and reverb(?).
(d) run guitar/pedals, mic and drums/loops directly into separate channels on audio interface, to computer DAW. But how do you get the live playing feel? Can you use the interface to throughput each channel on to the usual amp and PA, so it sounds like usual? I don't like headphones and it would mean singing out loud with nothing else being audible. This would also rely on the DAW to add amp simulation. Alternatively, output everything from DAW (incl. amp simulation) to vocal PA?
Are there any other methods? Thoughts, suggestions, questions? What are the pros and cons of each method?
I can foresee this being a huge rabbit hole, in particular when it comes to the interface - I have lots of questions on that, but one step at a time...
Thanks guys.
- jeremyb
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Re: Home recording (with current tech/equipment as at early 2019)
Maybe one of those mixers that is also an interface, then you can do whatever with all your existing bits and use the PA for monitoring?
Slowy wrote: That's the problem; everything rewarding is just such hard work. Regret takes much less effort.
- olegmcnoleg
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Re: Home recording (with current tech/equipment as at early 2019)
You could spend a lot of time and money here, but why don't you start by recording the room with your iphone? Keep it simple and see what that tells you? It is always telling to record your voice and then listen to it without any instruments at all.
You could use Garage Band and just a simple interface, if you want to get more technical about it.
You could use Garage Band and just a simple interface, if you want to get more technical about it.
- JHorner
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Re: Home recording (with current tech/equipment as at early 2019)
1) Start with room recording, eventually get frustrated with inability to change levels after recording
2) Mic everything up, this sounds glorious when done right, eventually give up as results inconsistent (above my skill level)
3) Lineout from each element into 8 input interface to record "live" (no headphones)
Those were my stages of progression. Been happy with stage 3 for a long time now.
Edit: I don't think there's anything wrong with starting off with room recording, it might be all you need.
2) Mic everything up, this sounds glorious when done right, eventually give up as results inconsistent (above my skill level)
3) Lineout from each element into 8 input interface to record "live" (no headphones)
Those were my stages of progression. Been happy with stage 3 for a long time now.
Edit: I don't think there's anything wrong with starting off with room recording, it might be all you need.
- Conway
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Re: Home recording (with current tech/equipment as at early 2019)
Does your guitar amp have a line out? If not, how do you get it into your interface?JHorner wrote:3) Lineout from each element into 8 input interface to record "live"
- KNNZ
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- JHorner
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Re: Home recording (with current tech/equipment as at early 2019)
Mesa cab clone.Conway wrote:Does your guitar amp have a line out? If not, how do you get it into your interface?JHorner wrote:3) Lineout from each element into 8 input interface to record "live"
Other products are available
- bender
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Re: Home recording (with current tech/equipment as at early 2019)
Loads of different ways to approach this. If you're only really looking for a tool to analyse your playing/singing, a simple, live recording using your phone or a dedicated stereo recorder (e.g. Zoom H5 or Sony PCM-M10) would be my suggestion. Phone mics get pretty smeary, but those handheld recorders can capture a performance quite well.
Otherwise:
Guitar amp -> Mic -> Interface Mic input 1
Vocals -> PA channel 1 -> Direct out (if the PA mixer has a direct out per channel) to Interface Line input 2
Drum Machine -> PA channel 2 -> Direct out (if the PA mixer has a direct out per channel) to Interface Line input 3
Or
Guitar amp -> Mic -> Interface Mic input 1
Vocals -> PA channel 1 -> Direct out (if the PA mixer has a direct out per channel) to Interface Line input 2
Drum loops -> played from computer.
If you don't have a satisfactory way to get the signal from the PA to the interface, you're probably better to not bother with the PA, and use headphones.
Guitar amp -> Mic -> Interface Mic input 1
Vocals -> Interface Mic input 2
Drum loops -> played from computer
Should be monitored through headphones, although you could try just playing through the speakers hooked up to your computer. Monitoring can be a bit tricky, and will require an interface with a suitable monitoring control panel (which most have).
Otherwise:
Guitar amp -> Mic -> Interface Mic input 1
Vocals -> PA channel 1 -> Direct out (if the PA mixer has a direct out per channel) to Interface Line input 2
Drum Machine -> PA channel 2 -> Direct out (if the PA mixer has a direct out per channel) to Interface Line input 3
Or
Guitar amp -> Mic -> Interface Mic input 1
Vocals -> PA channel 1 -> Direct out (if the PA mixer has a direct out per channel) to Interface Line input 2
Drum loops -> played from computer.
If you don't have a satisfactory way to get the signal from the PA to the interface, you're probably better to not bother with the PA, and use headphones.
Guitar amp -> Mic -> Interface Mic input 1
Vocals -> Interface Mic input 2
Drum loops -> played from computer
Should be monitored through headphones, although you could try just playing through the speakers hooked up to your computer. Monitoring can be a bit tricky, and will require an interface with a suitable monitoring control panel (which most have).
- Conway
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Re: Home recording (with current tech/equipment as at early 2019)
Thanks Ben, I was hoping for your input.
My vocal PA has an XLR direct output, so that's fine.
Drum loops, I could also play to them live but not record them, and simply import them into the DAW later.
Guitar seems to be the one that is most difficult. All your suggestions involve mic'ing the amp. Why that rather than either: (a) guitar plugged straight into interface; or (b) CabClone/load box to interface?
Thanks.
My vocal PA has an XLR direct output, so that's fine.
Drum loops, I could also play to them live but not record them, and simply import them into the DAW later.
Guitar seems to be the one that is most difficult. All your suggestions involve mic'ing the amp. Why that rather than either: (a) guitar plugged straight into interface; or (b) CabClone/load box to interface?
Thanks.
- bender
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Re: Home recording (with current tech/equipment as at early 2019)
Short answer: because those two methods add complexity and expense. A mic is really easy, and is relatively cheap.Conway wrote:Thanks Ben, I was hoping for your input.
My vocal PA has an XLR direct output, so that's fine.
Drum loops, I could also play to them live but not record them, and simply import them into the DAW later.
Guitar seems to be the one that is most difficult. All your suggestions involve mic'ing the amp. Why that rather than either: (a) guitar plugged straight into interface; or (b) CabClone/load box to interface?
Thanks.
Long answer:
Assuming you are wanting to record this live in one take as opposed to overdubbing, you'll need to be able to hear the guitar while you record.
a) Plugging straight into the interface means using software amp sims. If you monitor through your recording software, you're going to have to deal with latency (the delay from the input source, through the processor and back out again). The way you avoid latency when tracking is to usually to monitor the input rather than the actual record track. You usually do this by muting the track in your DAW and monitoring the input on the interface using its software control panel (this basically sends the input that you're plugged into directly to the monitor outs without going through the computer). Some interfaces (e.g. Antelope Zen Tour or Discrete 4, or UA Apollo) have DSP amp sims built in so you can monitor live through the processor with near zero latency, but they're getting pretty pricey.
b) Cab Clone or Load box is an ok answer- but you still need to send that to speakers somehow. That's a lot easier than the above as you can simply mute the track in the DAW and monitor through the software control panel for the interface. You'd have to buy one though, and they're not cheap.
I'd suggest keeping it as close to how you're actually practicing/performing and figuring out how to simply capture that without changing too many things. The simplest way to do that is to load the loops into your computer, mic yourself up as usual, send that to the interface and then mic the amp. You hear the amp live in the room and your voice through the PA, meaning the only thing you need to hear out of the computer is the drum loops. No tricky routing required. That's my thinking anyway.
What's your vocal PA?
- JHorner
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Re: Home recording (with current tech/equipment as at early 2019)
"Cab Clone or Load box is an ok answer- but you still need to send that to speakers somehow"
Cab clone has 2 outs: TS to speaker, XLR to interface
Plug both in makes:
Noise from speaker
Audio track on computer
Cab clone has 2 outs: TS to speaker, XLR to interface
Plug both in makes:
Noise from speaker
Audio track on computer
- bender
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Re: Home recording (with current tech/equipment as at early 2019)
Yes, I have one. It's not really that different to using a mic at that point. Totally workable solution if you have a cab clone though.JHorner wrote:"Cab Clone or Load box is an ok answer- but you still need to send that to speakers somehow"
Cab clone has 2 outs: TS to speaker, XLR to interface
Plug both in makes:
Noise from speaker
Audio track on computer
- olegmcnoleg
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Re: Home recording (with current tech/equipment as at early 2019)
[quote="Conway”]
Guitar seems to be the one that is most difficult. All your suggestions involve mic'ing the amp. Why that rather than either: (a) guitar plugged straight into interface; or (b) CabClone/load box to interface?
Thanks.[/quote]
Hah—-get a Kemper!
Guitar seems to be the one that is most difficult. All your suggestions involve mic'ing the amp. Why that rather than either: (a) guitar plugged straight into interface; or (b) CabClone/load box to interface?
Thanks.[/quote]
Hah—-get a Kemper!
- jeremyb
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Re: Home recording (with current tech/equipment as at early 2019)
HD500 has a mic input... just sayin'....
Slowy wrote: That's the problem; everything rewarding is just such hard work. Regret takes much less effort.
- JHorner
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Re: Home recording (with current tech/equipment as at early 2019)
The significant difference in a live recording situation is zero bleed from anything else.bender wrote:Yes, I have one. It's not really that different to using a mic at that point. Totally workable solution if you have a cab clone though.JHorner wrote:"Cab Clone or Load box is an ok answer- but you still need to send that to speakers somehow"
Cab clone has 2 outs: TS to speaker, XLR to interface
Plug both in makes:
Noise from speaker
Audio track on computer
Also I seem to be possessed of the ability to mic a cab and make it sound like the mic is in a bucket despite being 100% sure I did it the same way last time.